Lionel's Adjustable Draw Bar

Eric Siegel shows it well in his review of the Milwaukee Road S-3.

it is also included on their new scale auto-racks.

I'll play "devils advocate" here and guess that offering the drawbar on previously offered models requires some type of  altering, modification, or redisigning of the  original chassis tooling. The same could be said for the reason as to why whistle steam has been omitted on many models.

Since the S3 is "all new tooling" Lionel could design whatever they want into it. Since tooling is the most expensive part of the train making process, having to cahnge tooling that is already available  would increase production costs.

I'm certainly no expert on this matter these are just guesses from an average o-guage modeller ( at best).

Having said all that, Lionels original infra red drawbar has been a very reliable performer  thats still far better than the old 3ft snake of the past,and some locos have a "reasonable" loco-tender spacing.

There have been minor issues  posted with the adjustable drawbar.

Thanks for the link.  I should have know Eric would have had one!  That is a cool feature that dramatically reduces the gap between engine and tender.  I hope Lionel decides to install this feature on future engines.

quote:

I'll play "devils advocate" here and guess that offering the drawbar on previously offered models requires some type of  altering, modification, or redesigning of the  original chassis tooling. The same could be said for the reason as to why whistle steam has been omitted on many models.

 

Since the S3 is "all new tooling" Lionel could design whatever they want into it. Since tooling is the most expensive part of the train making process, having to change tooling that is already available  would increase production costs.

Rick,

I think you are exactly right. This thing isn't going to work or best case, look very out of place on existing models.

I am also not in favor of the way Lionel has decided to mount this thing to the trailing truck of the engine.

What I would like to see is it mounted to the casting directly under the cab floor where there would be more space to hide and in a more prototypical way that would take stress away from the truck and move it to the bodies of the engine and tender.

I like the idea. I'm just not convinced that Lionel engineered this close coupling device in the proper way.

Too bad Eric didn't show how it actually worked going around a curve.

Big Jim, not sure whatr engine you are talking about but the milwaukee s3 is all under the cab and it looks fantastic and works perfect.  They should put it an all models.

Can't speak for the S3, but the Flyer Y3 is set up pretty much the way Fleishmann, Roco and Markiln have done it for decades on their HO models.

It's not rocket science, it's a pretty simple device.  Tooling can be changed to accomodate the expanding drawbar to existing models.  Any tool designer worth his salt should be able to make the changes required.

Rusty

I'm speaking of the S3 as shown in the above video at about the 11:30 mark. I don't doubt that it works fine, but, remember this is a brand new tooling made for this engine. I am not familiar with the details of a real S3, so, I wonder if anything was left off in order to install this device?

What I doubt is making, what the in the video appears to be a large piece, fit on locos with the past tooling. It does appear in the video that it could very possibly take up space needed for other detail.

Other than that, I'm all for it.

Every three rail model I have has a compromise somewhere. The ONLY question I raise is what is worth the compromise? If I had a choice, limiting some detail on, in, or near the firebox would be well worth having the close coupling. I will tell you why.

I have the S-3 and 98% of the time I watch it in side view. iMO, it is prototypically close coupled. Therefore, it is well worth the sacrifice of detail because the trade off results in much more realism.

i have an s3 northern. what the self adjusting draw bar allows for tighter turns without the engine hitting the tender.

For what it's worth, the real Milwaukee S3 (#261) has an "all weather" vestibule cab, which includes a big steal diaphragm assembly. The spring-loaded diaphragm is quite a contraption on a coal burning steam locomotive, since it must allow the Fireman to access the tender coal gates, but still keep the weather out.

As a result, the Lionel designed "adjustable drawbar" works quite well on the S3 models, since the all weather cab design tends to obstruct much of what might be visible if the model had a standard open cab with deck apron. Just maybe, that is why Lionel chose to design & install that adjustable drawbar, and still has NOT offered it on any locomotive models with open cabs.

Here are some photos of the compensating drawbar mechanism and what it does in practice. I've had the S3 for over a year now and I think the compensating mechanism works great. It pulls the tender much closer to the locomotive than would otherwise be possible. 

You can see in the photos how it fits under the cab. Note that the tender drawbar is also spring loaded, although it's harder to see because it's mostly hidden behind the truck. Yes, it does replace whatever detail might be under the cab, but I prefer to have it look better in operation than have a couple of extra detail bits that I can only look at if I pick up the engine and turn it upside down. If you are a 2-railer with 120" radius curves, that's relevant; to most 3-railers, it's a rivet-counter's quibble. The visible box for the IR wireless tether is also non-prototypical; how far do you want to go?  As others have pointed out already, looking at it from the side you don't see anything amiss.

Here's the bottom view:

Here is the normal position on straight track. The tender-cab diaphragm provided by Lionel is in place. Note how much closer together the locomotive and tender are than on a normal 3-rail steamer.

And here it is seen from the outside of an 0-63 curve. Lionel rates the S3 for 0-54 track; my layout doesn't have 0-54 but this is close to maximum extension. 

So, it is indeed mounted under the cab "floor" and NOT on the trailing truck. An excellent photo, which also shows how well such a mounting works on a steam locomotive model equipped with an "all weather" cab arrangement, but MIGHT not work, or LOOK, so well on a model with an open cab.

Thanks for the excellent photos and review.

Here how the adjusting drawbar is on the Flyer Y3, also mounted under the cab floor:

Image: S Scale SIG, www.sscale.org

Here's how it looks from the side:

And, it works very well on Flyer equivalent 20" radius curves:

So, it can be done on a non-vestibule cab locomotive in O.

The only detail missing is the cab support bracket, which is probably more due to the Flyer Y3 being articulated like a LionMaster or RailKing articulated.

Rusty

I think that Lionel designed that backwards.  IMO, the adjusting mechanism should have been designed into the tender, not the locomotive.  Doing it that way would then probably eliminate the sacrifice of under-cab detailing under the cab.

I think we all agree with you Rusty, my point is that Lionel can reuse tooling thats been used and paid for already. No modifying, redesigning, testing etc, just pour the casting and send them out. I think this is why whistle steam has been omitted from certain models, the underside of the boiler casting still has to be modifed as well as adding removable steam dome or whatever to fill the unit. I'm sure these mods however small add up.

I'm not saying Lionel shouldn't be making these changes, I'm just guessing as to why they're not.

quote:

 to most 3-railers, it's a rivet-counter's quibble. The visible box for the IR wireless tether is also non-prototypical; how far do you want to go?

Now, that is what I was talking about!

Well let's see here Mr. SW Hi. how far Lionel did go.

Looks like, even though it is for the A/F, Lionel has done everything I was talking about! See how it is mounted up very close to where the actual drawbar and buffer plate are located. It also appears that if one wanted to go to the little extra trouble, they could make a round cover to simulate the stoker tunnel.

And lo & behold there is plenty space for most every under cab detail one could reasonably ask for.

I do hope this carries over in the exact same way to their other O scale locos.

BTW, Rusty, thanks for those pictures!