Lionmaster Legacy challenger wiring

That's going to be a scarce item, I don't believe Lionel has published any wiring diagrams for the Legacy stuff, at least I haven't seen any.

Thanks for the reply John. I have found a diagram for the TMCC version. Which might help a little. 

The engine is a bit of a mess. A couple of photos of the inside of a intact version would be great if anyone has some?

Loco deserves rebuilding, looks like some striped it for the Legacy driver board and the R4LC after the rear engine was damaged. 

Nick

The early Legacy stuff was very similar to the TMCC versions.  I guess it all depends on what's missing.  You might consider just doing a TMCC upgrade on it if you're missing most of the electronics.

Nick,

it might be useful, when you have a look at the ´replacement parts ´ of the Lionel Service site for this engine. With the pictures of all parts for the dismantled engine you have a good overview , what  has to be installed.

Albrecht

I have been looking at the Lionel parts site. Unfortunately it does not show the wiring harness. Mechanically it's reasonably straight forward to replace the missing parts. Most of the connectors only fit in one place.

However I  think one of the wire nuts is missing as I have a few bare wires that are twisted together. 

Nick

If major parts of the wiring are missing or hacked, it could be interesting to get it working again without starting pretty much from scratch. 

This is like working on something that someone else hacked up before you, I try to avoid such jobs.

I know what you mean John. I seam to attract the putting someone else's mess right jobs at work!

Good news is I am in the States at the moment so that makes it a lot easier (and cheaper) to get the bits.

Nick

Do not apply any TMCC wiring to Legacy.  The systems only look alike.  They are not.  -What you trying to have happen?   Are you trying to rewire stock?  If you have your continuity meter handy you can figure where everything goes.  Throw out what wires you are concerned about and we should be able to let you know.

Hi Marty,

             Yes I want to restore it to stock. Most parts if not all of the wiring is there.

It looks like at least two wire nuts have been removed. The one for the antenna to the two

handrails. I have identified a single black wire that is connected to the Legacy motherboard that has a bare end. I assume this is the antenna. 

And it looks like one is missing from the grey wires that appear to go to ring terminals on the front and rear engines and a grey wire from the black DCDS J connector.

It also appears a red wire running from the smoke unit is attached to these at this wire nut and another red wire from the smoke on off switch.

I ordered(lots) of parts from Lionel today.

Many thanks

Nick

On the antenna, check pin 23 on the R4LC for continuity on the motherboard.  Do you have grey wires coming off the rollers?  

Yes continuity between pin 23 and motherboard. So that confirms the antenna is the wire I assumed.

Grey wires are coming off the rollers.

Nick

Here's a couple of pics

In need of a bit of advice again guys with "Project Challenger".

Progress so far, rebuilt the missing rear engine and the IR drawbar. 

The IR tether has a red and blue wire with a connector plug. However the Legacy Engine Motherboard (691-MB09-B00) has 3 sockets that this plug will fit. Marked as "J4", "J5" and "J9" not sure which it should be connected to. Any ideas?

Many thanks

Nick

Nick12DM,

for a 3-wire IR transmitter tether the colors and connections to the R4LC are:

purple    pin   24(Serial)

black       pin 3 and 4(AC ground)

black with red stripe  pin 19 and 20 (+5V DC).

To my knowledge:

For the 2 wire IR tether  should be an additional circuit on the motherboard.

So you can follow the traces between R4LC and the additional circuit and then to the appropriate connector. Anyway, you have to transmit a serial Information.

By the way, are you sure you have a 691-MB09-B00 and not a 691-MB09-B01 ?

Instead of a 2 wire tether you can apply a 3 wire thether connecting to the R4LC as mentionned.

Maybe that helps

Regards

Albrecht

Many thanks Albrecht,

Board is B00 version.

Traced out the 3 connectors J9 is the 2 wire tether.

J5 is Rear coupler

J4 is Front coupler

These are not used on the Lionmaster Challenger.

I just have to identify the connection for 3rd rail (red wire) from the smoke unit and

the red wire from the smoke unit switch. These are just bare ends. Question is do both these wires connect with the grey wires from the 3rd rail rollers with a wire nut?

Regards

Nick

The smoke unit in that engine doesn't get track power, it's powered from the smoke regulator module.  Putting track power on that 6 ohm resistor will get you some interesting results, but only for a few seconds!

I'm guessing the smoke regulator is missing.  You're looking for this part.

Hi John,

            Ahh that makes total sense. The smoke regulator is there. The red wire runs from the smoke regulator to the smoke on/off switch. Another red wire runs from the other side of the switch to a bare end. The red power wire from the smoke unit ends in a bare end.

So these two wires should be connected, sending regulated power to the smoke unit.

I have to say I am learning a lot

Thanks very much

Nick 

If you trim the heat shrink back you will see markings on the ACREG.  Lionel wired these a few way.  One Red is center rail input and the other is Heater AC at the reduced voltage.  The 2 black are normally common one is outer rail chassis ground, the other goes to common of the smoke unit.  The brown is serial data in from R2LC.

I have seen the switch at interrupt the input to the ACREG Red, and I have seen the ACREG always powered, but the red output interrupted by the switch.

Here is a diagram of one wiring method.  One is smart smoke with chips on smoke unit so serial data goes to it,  The second is semi smart which is the plain version no chips and no serial data.  G

Hi GGG,

           Thank you for the diagrams. I have done as you said and looked at the smoke regulator. The wiring looks to be similar to the diesel diagram but with added chuff switch.

Smoke unit is a 691-SSMU-K. It does have a chip on it but it does not have a serial data feed. The serial data goes from the regulator to the Legacy motherboard.

Looking carefully at the smoke unit it has 4 wires connecting to it. Pin 1 is marked "3rd", Pin 2 is marked "Gnd", Pin 3 is marked "Htr", Pin 4 does not appear to be marked but is the chuff switch connection.

The "Htr" connection is connected to the "H+" connection on the regulator. 

This looks like a hybrid system. In that the smoke unit takes a direct feed from the 3rd rail for fan power. The heater is powered from the smoke regulator.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks

Nick

The smoke unit you have manages the fan with the chuff switch, so your connections sound correct.  The direct power feed just runs the power supply for the fan and the chuff switch logic.

Thanks again John. I think I have all the wiring identified. And everything appears to be present and correct. Just waiting on a small number of spares from Lionel that should be here today. 

The only item I am not sure about the location of is the tethered bridge on the DCDS J.

I assume this should be bolted to something as a heat sink?

I have a spare threaded hole on the weight that is unaccounted for. Sadly Lionel's parts picture does not show a lot of the small fixings for the Legacy Challenger.

Regards

Nick

The tethered bridge should mount on the chassis close to the DCDS.  Perhaps the threaded hole in the weight is the place?  It's probably a good choice, lots of mass to conduct the heat away.

Update to "Project Challenger".

New Motor driver and heat sink installed. Wiring repaired. 

Upon a trial run the rear motor appeared to have been damaged. I had ordered a spare just in case as I thought it felt a little tight. New motor installed and loco runs great conventionaly. New R4LC installed.

Just a few finishing touches such as the J bridge to mount and reprogram the engine when I get back to the UK and have my Legacy set.

Thanks again for all the help guys.

Nick 

Just finished final assembly of "Project Challenger" .

J Bridge mounted.

Wire nut replaced and cable ties.

Shell on.

Back on the track!

Rebuilt with the minimum of tools, on the dining room table while I am on holiday in the States.

Final costs. Locomotive $100.00, Parts $400.00. Total $500.00 for Lionmaster Legacy Challenger.

Well pleased with the result!

Nick

Nick

It looks great.

I have enjoyed reading this project of yours as it's been on going.

Now , I have absolutely no idea half the time what you guys are talking about, but still enjoy it.

My interest is  because I have one Legacy Lionmaster Big Boy coming in the mail currently and one Legacy Lionmaster Challenger on preorder.

My first and second larger steam engines.

Larry

Hi Larry,

            You won't be disappointed with the Legacy Lionmaster Big Boy. I picked up the first issue in 2008. Great engine! It gets a lot of run time.

Nick