LionMaster - what do you think the future holds?

I'm very excited to see Lionmaster back in the line up. I just hope that they will produce some more modern big diesels that can operate on smaller curves. I love my Lionmaster SD90s and with a layout full of O36 switches and curves I need the selective compression to get some more modern diesels. I would love to see lots of CN and CP!

Jay in Ottawa

Frankly I am surprised that any LionMaster has been remade. I am stunned since all I heard for all of the previous ones is how little Lionel made on them and they did not sell well. I would say if you want something in the future then jump on this now since there are no guarantees for any other future productions if this one does not sell. I will likely order one myself.

I agree with Jay Ottawa about modern diesels. I really like the Lionmaster SD90 locomotive. Lionel did a really nice job on the diesel Lionmaster locomotives.

I think Lionel is really missing the boat by not making semi-scale modern diesels like the SD70ACe and the ES44AC. Not everyone has the room or the interest in scale products. The SD90 and SD80 are 20 years old, and if you don't count them since Lionel has stopped making Lionmaster locomotives except for the Challenger locomotive in the new catalog,  I think the newest diesel produced for traditional size equipment operators is the GP38. It would be nice to see Lionel produce a diesel locomotive newer than 30 years old for hobbyists who operate traditional size locomotives and rolling stock.

I prefer conventional type control, and don't run the sound units I do have.

Just a bell, and whistle is enough.

With steam, (cylinder steam too!  on anything, it might at least draw me into that level eventually.

I spent a season at shows, just watching the big trains. I saw so many with the steam,  I thought they all had it. I'm disappointed for you, for sure.

This is a Lion Master Challenger, from the last production run, I would say go for a 2015 Challenger. I am thinking about picking up a second Challenger.

  Click photos to enlarge.

I think that they are nice products and I am happy to see them back.  I was also surprised that Lionel had ceded this area to MTH, since my sense is that MTH moves a fair amount of the RK Imperial products.  But competition is always good for the consumer. 

I want to see where the "street price" is.  I was a bit surprised by the catalog price in the sense that MTH sells its RK Imperial steamers in the $600 range (for example, th articulated Alleghenys, which would be comparable to the LM Challengers) with dealer discount and if I recall correctly, the Lionmasters in the '15 catalog have a list price of ~$1000, so it would take quite a discount for them to be comparable to MTH.  That being said, they do have whistle steam which is very neat but I am not certain how much extra I am willing to pay for that feature, particularly when the MTH units smoke prodigiously. 

I too would like to see Lionmaster diesels.  My guess is that if the Challengers sell we'll see the diesels too -- it's a way for Lionel to determine if the interest is really there. 

I too was thrilled to see LionMaster reintroduced in the most recent catalog. Even though I'm one of those "smug" conventional operators, I enjoy learning about the different command control systems and offerings. As we learned from Notch 6 during Derek's interview of Mike Reagan this years inclusion of the Lion Master Challenger is a market test to discover if the product line can be a profitable endeavor for Lionel. I hope it's successful.

Well as a "self righteous" command operator, I believe that you will only see Lionmaster engines that have already been produced.  I suspect Lionel is getting their money's worth out of the tooling it has.  I don't expect to see new tooling for this line, at least not in the near future.

Matt don't worry, I still like you "smug" types.  LOL!

I'm sure, as Mike Reagan said, the line will only see expansion if sales are sufficient enough. Remember, don't fight the hand that feeds you.

If Lionel is using existing tooling that still works, we could see locomotives like the Lionmaster J3A Hudson or Class A 2-6-6-4.

I have only moved from annual holiday layout to devoting a quarter of the basement to a layout this last year, I didn't even know about Lionmaster until the 2015 catalog.  I am just starting into command control. I now have a Challenger on order. I hope they continue to produce the LM line. New opportunities to get previously released engines is good with me!

I think it is a wonderful idea to return these items into Lionel's production. There are so many layouts that cannot support 0-72, so this move will serve many who love articulated engines.

I loved my LM Big Boy and I can't wait until they do another.  It is also my hope that they would offer one with Lionchief+, but I'll take Legacy if its what they offer.  I will probably buy two this time.  

I have a Lionmaster Hudson, it just runs and runs and runs, 0-31 curves no problem.  I would love to see these remade with Legacy.

Art

I agree that we will likely not see new tooling w/i the Lionmaster line, but IMO it makes both economic and operational sense for Lionel to make use of their existing and detailed  Lionmaster tooling.  If this 2015 challenger offering is a market test, I wish they selected the Hudson or class-A instead of the challenger model.  Lionel has skipped over the hudson, an iconic model type that is still associated w/ the Lionel name as much as the ATSF F3 regardless of semi-scale vs. scale. IIRC the class-A was another Lionmaster model that was skipped over in favor of the another challenger or big boy.  It should be noted that the second hand market still appears very strong for both the TMCC Hudson & Class-A.

Running 0-54 curves.

This is a great thread.! I am a big Lionmaster fan and have examples of all the range produced.

Why a Challenger this time - I guess they wanted to cash in on that "Big Boy/Up Articulated" excitement and went with the challenger because the BB was only done a few years back. I am also guessing that the previously used whistle smoke unit fitted into a Challenger easily? - who knows.

I would love to see a Class A done again - new number, maybe weathered - who knows we can dream as positive activity from Lionel will only be as a result of positive sales.

I would also love to understand the pricing better - I used to get that Lionmaster carried more detail but now with MTH Imperial I am not so sure as I can't believe Mike W sells his Imperials at a loss!! I doubt we will ever know the full position.

I just hope LIonmaster sticks around.

MIKE

I'm a LionMaster fan, but I don't want a Challenger or a Big Boy at this time.  I'm hoping the Hudson is reissued.  I already have the Cab-Forward, but if they issue one as a John Korling Special (Daylight dscheme) then I'll purchase a new one.  I have the last issue of the T1 with whistle steam and she is a fun runner.

My LM N&W Class A is the only semi-scale command control locomotive that has survived on my roster. For now, I'd say that the accountants will be keeping an eye on the sales of the current offering. If they do well, I'd say we'll probably see more. If they tank, this could be "it".

Mike Wolf has brought some real competition to the table with the Imperial line.

Gilly

Heck, this smug conventional operator would pull the trigger and invest in a Legacy system for a John Korling Cab Forward in a Daylight paint scheme.

How bout it John, would you laugh all the way to the bank cashing your royalty check?

I was very excited to see the return of LionMaster in the new catalog, and in my case the Challengers in particular. The yellow stripe UP version is on my must-have list, and will be paired with a set of 15" aluminum passenger cars that have been standing by. With mint examples of older Challengers going for nearly $600, a new one with Legacy and steam whistle for $200 more seems reasonable.

Like me, I'm sure many of those with smaller layout situations are greeting the return of LM with open arms.

Nice to see Lionmaster back. I have the first Legacy Lionmaster Big Boy. It is one of my all time favourite locos.

 I picked up a Legacy Lionmaster Challenger a few weeks before the catalog was realeased. It was a serious deal although it needs a little work. Looking forward to picking it up from my friends when I am over in the States in April.

Nick

You're already on the doo-doo list for relettering your LionMaster Cab Forward in Lionel Lines!  (Actually you're not, since those prototypical standards only apply to scale models). 

And for all those other heathens that encourage such blasphemous indignity towards the Cab Forwards, may you all get splinters from using cheap toilet paper! 

IMO Lionel should offer some of the other lionmaster steamers, namely the hudson and class A. I'm suprised lionel doesn't at least offer them and see what kind of orders they get, they could always cancel if the numbers aren't there.

It appears the best seller is the challenger because its been offered numerous times. The bigboy only twice, and the hudson, class A, and cab forward, just once 

 Its been 12 years and the class A is still my favorite, and the TMCC version from 2003 still has a great soundset:

They've done the T-1 twice, once TMCC and once Legacy w/ whistle steam.

 LMAO 

Yep, forgot all about the T1 Marty! That one seems to have been a good seller as well. They don't come up on the secondary market very often.

I agree with RickO.  I have the A Class as well and it is a great engine.

The Challenger has already been reissued with Legacy so I don't think it is a good one to test the LionMaster waters with.  I think the Cab-Forward, A Class, and/or Hudson would have gotten a lot more buzz from the LionMaster lovers.

I was actually surprised they didn't do the Big Boy - only because of all the buzz around the Vision Line one.  A big boy in LionMaster could have been for everyone else.  Also, surprised they didn't try the cab forward - again lots of buzz around the fantasy paint scheme and how great the non-fantasy paint scheme was.  Would have been a cab forward for everyone else again.  (I know not really everyone else but just making a generalization).  I hope enough get ordered, it is out my budget this year, but I really like the line.

It would make sense to offer a LionMaster BigBoy, when you catalog the scale version and offer a LionMaster Cab-Forward, when you catalog a scale version.  Or at least offer them in the following catalog.

I'm glad to see the Lionmaster line return.  I originally owned the TMCC Lionmaster Big Boy (2 chuffs per rotation) but sold it to upgrade to a Legacy Lionmaster Big Boy (non-smoking whistle, but 4 chuffs per rotation) which is definitely a crowd pleaser.  Lionel later on released the Legacy Lionmaster Big Boy with smoking whistle effect, but I decided that I could live without that and just enjoy what I have.

If I had known that the Lionmaster Big Boy was to return with the whistle smoke effect, that would be the version I would get, but at the time, the fate of Lionmaster was own known.

The Legacy Lionmaster Challenger with smoke whistle effect should be good seller since the challenger was due in the rotation and I think Lionel is smart retesting the waters again with this model.  If there orders are there, they most certainly will add more to the line over time since we know they tooling for other models.  Only time will tell.