Liquid smoke versus pellet

You can use either I believe. Liquid will work in a engine set up for Pellets, just don't put to much in there. If it's a liquid engine which I do not believe it is, you wouldn't be able to fit a pellet down the stack. 

Appreciate the quick response.

thank you.

Liquid will work fine in the engine...just remember the rule: Don't overfill. A pellet melted yields about 2-3 drops. That's it. Hope this helps.

Jeb

Good morning Jeb,

Thank you for the information, I truly appreciate it, I am kind of new to this and whenever I receive a post war item I am always nervous I will ruin it because some of the ones i receive have no instruction manual so all info is again truly appreciated.

thank you.

I'd stick to pellets if I could. Once liquid is introduced the pellets don't seem to work as well. The combo forms a sort of gunk that doesn't seem to melt, flow, & wick. Pellets last longer in a session and don't evaporate when the loco sits for long periods. I'm also seeing some smoke unit corrosion that is steering me back to Lionel for fluid. I only used Lionel fluid in the old red plastic tubes until a few years ago when I finally ran out of pellets and old fluid both. Smoke units have been dropping like flies since then.

Pellets are available.  Better to use them in those post war generators.  Mixing oil, and that what the liquid is and pellets will ultimately create a "gunk" as Adriatic described.

@SantaFe52 - While the above posters are trying to be helpful, they are not providing the full picture.

First you must determine which smoke generator style your 671 has...

If you have a 1946 version with the dimple bulb heating element, it was designed for Lionel 196 type smoke pellets. These were somewhat unfriendly (corrosive and potentially toxic). I'm not aware of any 196 compatible reproductions today. Lionel did offer a conversion kit (highly desirable today) http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos/loc726p7.pdf . I read that most simply use fiberglass wadding and smoke fluid around the dimpled bulb in this case.

If you have the 1947 or later version with the ceramic nicrome heater style unit, you can use either Lionel SP Smoke Pellets or smoke fluid

References: http://www.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=629

https://ogrforum.com/...compatibility---help

https://ogrforum.com/...bulb-to-liquid-smoke

https://ogrforum.com/...ne-smoke-unit-or-not

Goody posted:

...Mixing oil, and that what the liquid is and pellets will ultimately create a "gunk"...

I switch back and forth in the 726RR(736 type) that gets used the most at Christmas w/o regard or issues at all. I use this loco the most because it smokes the best on both liquid & pellets.

Good Afternoon,

i am attaching a picture of the engine I am concerned with, the smoke stack looks wide enough for pellets, thanks to all who responded, I think I will try the pellets, truly appreciate all the information.

 Thank you!

@SantaFe52, your picture seems to indicate a post '46 671 which can be used with Lionel SP Style Smoke Pellets or Smoke Fluid.

For postwar, stick with the pellets - it's neater with nothing to wipe up.

  It's either a smoke bulb, or a "standard element"; the turbines may have either.

  Not a bad point that a wet mess is one day is almost an inevitability with fluid.

I've been using reproduction pellets for a few years.  I won an auction for a 675 and it came with a full bottle of original postwar pellets. I gave them a try this Christmas and boy they left way more residue than the repos in the stacks and pistons. 

Good morning,

Ok, so I just received my sp smoke pellets in the mail, very excited to try them out, so I popped one in, ran the 671 around the track for a good 5 to 8 minutes, no smoke, so I said ok, let me try the fluid, took pellet out and dropped around 4 drops into it, ran it around for another 5 to 8 minutes, still no smoke, felt sad so took the engine cover off and noticed corrosion around the smoking unit where the wires meet it, cleaned it completely, tried to get every piece of dust and stuff inside, put it back together, ran it again and to no avail no smoke, at a standstill now, and advice?

thanks.

SANTAFE52 ,

your heating element inside probably went bad usually a wrapped around wire will break losing the connection.These are similar to a house toaster's heating element except on much smaller scale.

You can check out TTender parts for replacement. He even or used to sell the wire to wrap it yourself if you can solder small parts , have done this in the past .

One last thing make sure the wires coming from smoke unit are still soldered good if they are then its your heating element itself inside the assembly. Good Luck

 

 

If you purchase a reproduction heater, break the wire at the ground lug and unwrap 2 turns from the core then rewrap the wire on the lug. Otherwise the heater will not get hot enough to smoke very well.

You'll need to ensure there is a good frame to smoke unit frame connection, ensure the wire or unit tab isnt shorting, and finally checking for continuity over the resistor (or element, same resistance) (fame to tab should have continuity)

No meter? Jump proper rail power to unit frame and wire to test just the heater.

 In nuetral, and or jumped, power high 14-18v+ if you have it, wait a minute or two just sitting there to warm up well. It would smoke if it is going to by then.  

Change the element if needed (rebuilds of pellet heaters on ebay or maybe one of our venders? Or just switch to a resistor type and move to fluids..... always get new packing for this job. Always replace the gasket if that has no spongey rebound.  Ni-chrome element wire doesn't stick to solder, you wrap and trap it in the solder. 

  Both heater types are simple, two wire affairs. One wire to frame, the other a lead to a roller connection.

 That hand wrapped ceremic(cooled) pellet element could take up to 25v in stride, while a reistor somewhat less and should be kept wet, to cool it.

Optional home spun- cheaper- heater can be made with a normal metal wapped ceramic reststor of the right OHM and griding off ceramic shell until the innner metal wire is exposed. idea is from GRJ

Here are some service diagrams. Sounds like you only need a new 671-169 heating element or 671-225 heater assembly, but also replacing other parts such as the 671-212, 671-181 as well as the addition of a 2026-44 spring between the piston and smoke chamber would be advised sine you are already in there.

You can ignore the cement recommendation as a friction fit is sufficient: https://ogrforum.com/...post-war-smoke-units

 

This is the liquid types from various threads & members here

The sleeve and hairs below are to hold and wick liquid to the elements.

The looser hairs allow better airflow .

Repacking with just hairs vs or with the 671-212 "Pac-man" felt with whichever heater is an apples vs oranges thing imo.. but liquid and looser hairs likely holds more liquid Id think.  (new unit ) top upsidedown, but mind the technique, hair ends get packed in the well)

If you get a cover 671-160, I'd try for a metal one. Ive never had one melt.

If you needed glue or sealer or "brush on electric tape", high/extreme heat automotive silicone can take that heat all day. ( near primer red, but they may have new colors now too...?)

Good Evening,

just wanted to thank all for the info and pictures, I printed out the pictures and went to my hardware / train store and showed him the print out and to my surprise he had all the pcs I needed! Going to try my luck on changing it, hopefully to get some smoke.

thanks again.

Good evening,

Success! Got some beautiful smoke!

Truly thanking all for there input, it really is exciting after all these days and trips to the hardware/train store to have it work out.

Thank you!