Lobaugh Challenger gears

Boston gear company https://www.bostongear.com/pro...ock-gears/worm-gears

Thank you. I will follow this up.

Let us know what they say.

How much do you know about this gear?  Diameter? # teeth? Is the worm double-cut?

Have you looked into buying a pair of 653-6 NWSL gearboxes on the used or inventory market?

If I find a matching gear, got anything to trade?

Hi

The original gear and box which I measured and took photos etc looks like a Lobaugh special cut. I mentioned this some while ago to NWSL and he had said this gear didn't match any thing he knew about. Anyway I then considered his suggestion which is the ones you suggest (653-6) Because I delayed contacting NWSL to order this I sadly missed the boat train. Obviously I would be interested in tracking down a pair of these. Not sure if I have anything interesting to trade though, but  willing to pay with money.

I have considered getting replacement worm gears cut but I suspect this will be expensive. I could probably do this myself but again the special tools and indexing table required would make this all a bit pricey. However if I have to go down this route then so be it.

If you took photos and measurements, now would be the time to post them.  There are still original gears out in the wild.  But the Lobaugh gear boxes were not meshed perfectly, and any siderod bind could result in a chewed gear.

Anxiously awaiting your experience with Boston Gear.  I bet the index table and hobber will be cheaper and more fun.

What year is this Challenger? I have a 1940 Lobaugh NP Challenger that the gears are different than the Ball baring boxes with the keys.  I also have a International Models Challenger that had the gear boxes replaced with later boxes. I bought two Lobaugh boxes that are larger and the worms are cut differently. 

Jabelmann is postwar Lobaugh.  There are quite a few floating around - I have five, and parts for a sixth.  I think, but am not sure, that gears are all the same with the possible exception of single start/double start.

Prewar gearboxes were all over the map.  Some even got inserted from the top.

Here is the latest - started by my friend Peter Cozens:

Thanks for the info and photo. Mine is exactly the same with the tender lettered for UP. All the axles on mine are sprung including the tender. I suspect it was made or released about 1954. However the model I purchased got a nice paint job witch included the side rods all moving parts and the part of the worm and gear casing. I think it never ran, properly anyway, since the rear side rods were not drilled accurately and they will not  allow the wheels to turn. I'm replacing these with spares from Bob Stevenson. I have attached some photos of the gears for your information and please don't hesitate to make any comments or corrections since I have added dimensions to them. On Monday  I will contact the gear cutting company that has been suggested.

You are wrong. The 1940 Lobaugh  Challenger Northern Pacific is not of the type of gears that you show. It is not the steel worm fiber axle type that loads from the top  I will check the out the boxes for the axle gear.

I have attached photos supplied by the previous owner of my UP challenger.

Any further information about it will be of interest.

It looks like a very nice build.  No extras except the trailing truck, which is more correct than the Lobaugh-supplied truck.  I would be interested in how the tender is sprung, and if the tender sides are unwarped.

Not sure who Q2 is addressing above, but if he has more pre-war Challengers than I, then I might engage.  I have three Fetters, one D&H, and one semi-scratch NP.  You might have to endure pictures.  I might even claim expert status, when it comes to Lobaugh steam.  I am missing only the MoPac Mountain and the Suburban - I have all the rest, often in multiples large enough to be embarrassing.

I will look through my parts - but I note that the gear pictured, while damaged, appears to have enough of each tooth left to function normally.

Finally - get both mechanisms adjusted so they roll freely down a slightly inclined track before hooking up the gears.  Then make sure your gearbox cases are adjusted for full mesh.  That may entail soldering new tabs on the ends of the worm casing.  The heavy portion of the casing should rest firmly on the gear housing.

The Northern Pacific I have the gear boxes are open on to and closed at the bottom.Also ball baring and ball baring thrust for forward and rear travel.This engine does not have the Lobaugh gear my outher Lobaugh locomotives have or the ones that they show in the 1939 to1941 catalog.

Not sure what you are saying.  Keith's gearboxes are standard postwar.

Here are a few more.  I will look through my parts this evening.

The tender sides look pretty straight to me. Gloss finish on paint tends to show imperfections and I cant see so much as small dent on this tender. All tender wheels including the lead truck are sprung.  I am certainly not an expert on Lobaugh so I reckon there are others out there who can claim that crown  ! I have attached photos of the gearbox housings for reference. These look and feel in pretty good condition and after a good clean and grease of the ball bearings I suspect they will work fine.

Found them if you have a 1940 Lobaugh catalog on page 12 . New! all-enclosed gears.

If someone actually found these parts (unused) what would they be worth?  Yeah, I know the old line, it's worth what you can get for it.  Usually spoken by folks not looking for said parts.

Jay

I am not wild about Lobaugh gearboxes.  I promise to look this evening.

See those two screws going in horizontally beneath the worm shaft?  They are critical.  They cannot allow any clearance between the central barrel and that gear casing.  The stamped end bells must be trimmed to clear, and then washers soldered to them where the screws go.

Final assembly on the locomotive is tight.  You need to set this up beforehand.

The only reason I may be able to help is that, given the chance, I would convert a Lobaugh to NWSL.  I would then carefully wrap the original gear components and stuff them in the boiler for future owners.  Raoul perfected the 653-6 for O Scale.  The new owners let the quality slip a bit, but I found a way to fix that.  More Lobaugh gears have failed than one might think.

You a correct. Good luck on NWS gear box. I have had problems with them. There machine are worn out there tolerance are not  always the same. Wood be good to fine a KTM boy .

I can not tell from your photo.  Is that a two or three lead worm?

The worm is a two lead type. Although these gearboxes are made pretty solid, the way they are put together means there is a risk of misalignment when assembling. Bob2 you are certainly correct about the end screws. The tabs on mine have been bent slightly to accommodate the box. However the central barrel does fit tightly to the box. The end play on the shaft is about 30 thou. Any way I still figure I might try and acquire the NWSL 653-6 boxes either that or I start hobbing my own replacements. I will contact Boston Gear on Monday.

I found only one gear close to yours, and it had been modified.  I will count the teeth and take a photo.  I have Lobaugh gears that measure 1.1" dia, and they are found in my Challenger file.  If you are a machinist, this gear could be adapted.

I have a letter from Raoul Martin, dated August 1986, which I will add when I get to a decent keyboard.  

Still a couple places to look.

Nope.  Closest I can come is a 36 tooth gear, maybe 97 degrees, 2.202 dia x .205.  Center would need to be drilled for 1/4" axle and keyed.  You are welcome to it if you think it would work.

Here is my letter from Raoul.  We became friends a decade later, and I got a good discount on his parts.  

. . . 

Am afraid that replacement of your enclosed Lobaugh fear would not be inexpensive.  It  measures out to be a 40DP, which is not currently a standard size (32DP and 48DP being the current standards that bracket it).  While we could buy a 40 DP hob (probably), the total job costs are not at all attractive - in the area of $100+ depending on hob (the gear tooth cutting tool) cost and difficulty in locating it.  Your best bet would be to try and locate an existing gear, either from the current owner of the Lobaugh line or . . .  Your easiest and probably least expensive choice would be to replace the old gearing with current manufacture gearing.

I admit that I did not check inside my boilers - there may be a complete set in one or more - but I think you would be way happier with a pair of 653-6 gearboxes.  There are tricks to that - feel free to contact me if you decide to go that way and I will give you hints.  And if you want my 36 tooth gear (it might work fine) let me know, with your mailing address.

The letter from Raoul was similar information I got from NWSL. Sad he is closing but he did tell me his wife was very ill and I suspect the outcome got worse. I guess Rollin Lobaugh cut his own gears to suit the models he was building. I have other projects on the work bench so will wait and hope a pair of 653-6 gear boxes will turn up. Meanwhile I will research other possible options. There are other gearboxes but these tend to be too wide to fit the Lobaugh loco frames. Anyway thanks to all for the help and suggestions, especially to Bob2 for his expertise and knowledge. I plan to visit the US in March for the O Scale convention in Chicago and drop in on my cousins in Missouri.

Do search on LOBAUGH and it will take you to the TCA  and you will find a  verey interesting  artical including your Jableman Challenger.

About 90% of the steam photos in the TCA "Western Division" article are my photos, presented without attribution.  The Cab Forward is my scratch-built AC-4 in 17/64 scale.  The "Daylight" is a modified Pacific.

I personally do not mind my photos being used, but at least they could have said something like "most photos from Bob Turner."

I did not read it yet, but bookmarked it to see what it says about Challengers.

I rember a Lobaugh Cab Forward on ebay  some time ago. Would you rember what it went for? A frend says he may have one but it has a aluminum cab roof. He bought on ebay. 

Yes.  What few there are seem to trade between $1200 and $2500.  Art Hayes has bought and sold several - If you need a better estimate I can ask him.

The "twelve" number is what Jan Lorenzen and I came up with based on what we had seen in the market.  There may be as many as 25, but original tenders are scarce as hens teeth.  Most got either a homebuilt tender or a Max tender.

Also, most are sort of assembled with medium skill.

Here are my two:

The ones that you have seen do they have the 1940 gear boxes or NWS boxes. The one my frend  hase NWS high low boxes? Also there is tyhe aluminum roof? 

I haven't seen that many.  One of mine has original gearing; the other is set up for NWSL 653-6.

I got the original "Hi-Low" from Raoul.  Good idea if you don't mind visible driveshafts and butchered boilers, but the flaw was the brass worm gear.  Brass as an axle gear is good for about two hours; Celcon is good for thousands of hours.

A number of old Lobaugh articulateds have been cut up to make the USH gearboxes fit.  Those require extensive rework to get back to some reasonable approximation of Lobaugh.  I have only done that once.

I don't seem to have any ready photos of actual Lobaugh mechanisms for the Cab Forward, but my homemade frames are copies of Lobaugh.  I will include my NP Challenger frame; I mentioned it on a sound discussion about Lionel and articulated systems.  You can see two motors, which means engines can be out of synch.  Same with the little 2-6-6-2; it has 25:1 and 24:1 gearboxes, and can go in and out of synch.  Front gearbox is 653-6; rear is 253-6, and my famous speedometer cable connection is what allows it to go around corners.

Thanks for the infomation. I still consered about the aluminum cab roof. I also have a Labaugh Greenbrier. A frend  changed the motor in his lobaugh  challenger with a can motor with sprockets and timing belt. I was  talking to frend off yours Jim Debruin to day.  

Two motors each driving a gear box? This like a West Side EM1. How do you run the drive shaft? Bob used the chane but it keep braking. This is why he went to a sunset drive.

Front drive shaft goes through the hollow rear drive shaft.  Ball bearings on all shafts.  Chains are noisy, but do not break.

Metal or plastic chains?

Delrin.  Don't bother - look up Jay C and get tooth belts.

Delrin brakes sprocks splits. Stock drive prodocks standart and metricks. Belts sprocks ujoints. They will send you the books NC .

Not smart enough.  I will send dimensions and money to Jay when the time comes.  Life is too short to figure such things out.  I feel the same way about Dzus and Southco fasteners - just give me the part number, and then I am ok.

What is Dzus and Southco fasteners?