Locomotive Workshop List of Diesel Brass and White Metal Kits and Accessory Kits?

I'd be very surprised if such a list exists anywhere.

Jan’s son, also named Jan, is located in Brooklyn I believe. At the time I met him He was involved with a group trying to save and restore some traction equipment there.

When I met him he still had a lot of inventory of his father’s. If anyone has what you’re after, he might

John emailed, "When I met him [Jan] he still had a lot of inventory of his father’s. If anyone has what you’re after, he might..."

I talked to Jan (the son) about this List of Locomotive Workshop Diesel Kits years ago when I purchased a prototype Locomotive Workshop Alco C-630 from him and his Dad's estate.  Jan did not have a list of Diesel Locomotives made by his Dad's Locomotive Workshop at that time.  It seems the son at that time was more into Traction/Trolley models and his day job in Industrial Design than Diesels!

Regards, Steve

@Questor posted:

 It seems the son at that time was more into Traction/Trolley models and his day job in Industrial Design than Diesels!

 

At one time, LWS also made etched brass traction/trolley kits.

A comprehensive list of all of the LWS offerings over the many years would be quite an accomplishment (if not thicker than a Houston phone book.)  I have collected the monthly newsletters and the material difference in the listings can vary widely over just a few months, much more so over the years/decades etc. To describe it as a prolific variety may be an understatement, but I certainly appreciate how cool that complete list would be to see.

As an aside the Penn-Erie aluminum casting offerings correspond to GE's production of their Universal series as I believe the carbody molds were commissioned by GE for creating promotional models, with the molds in turn used to produce offerings via the LWS catalogue secondarily.

. 

Hello all ...Locomotive Work Shop ...made and or offered  a whole lot of products ...  normally in very small runs ... The Zephyr was one piece they offered RTR ...( in small numbers) 

You'll find ads for LWS in most copies of O scale railroading ... and a few photos of Jan with his products ... magazines 1970's- early 90's 

Cheers Carey 

Carey I forgot you had one of those ..........ok I'll get over it.

8^)

Hello all 

Atlpete..there is another L WS Zephyr on eBay ..as I type ...

Here are some photos of the LWS E units and BL 2 ....BL 2 may have been a Penn Erie project 

Cheers Carey 

@mwb posted:

I'd be very surprised if such a list exists anywhere.

I believe a partial list were in ads from the old O Scale Railroading issues as well as old 48"/ft.

Here is the only printed Locomotive Workshop product announcement I have...

Fascinating, thanks for posting this!

This is opinion because I don't have definitive knowledge of what is out there BUT: If I were interested in putting together a list of what was available from LWS I would try and acquire a set of  O Scale News 48/ft and buy the OGR disc with all the back issues (the early issues before the emphasis shifted to 3 rail would be of most interest) and look at the ads from LWS. I don't know when Jan started LWS, but his passing would be the later limit of your search. O Ssale News had pretty detailed advertiser list and it wouldn't take long to locate them.

His son might be able give you some details. I remember him trying to sell off what remained after Jan's passing. That would probably be covered in the magazines.

I never owned a LWS kit, But I heard certain of them could be quite challenging.

Simon

@Simon Winter posted:

This is opinion because I don't have definitive knowledge of what is out there BUT: If I were interested in putting together a list of what was available from LWS I would try and acquire a set of  O Scale News 48/ft and buy the OGR disc with all the back issues (the early issues before the emphasis shifted to 3 rail would be of most interest) and look at the ads from LWS. I don't know when Jan started LWS, but his passing would be the later limit of your search. O Ssale News had pretty detailed advertiser list and it wouldn't take long to locate them.

Much of what was announced by Jan in OSN adverts and his newsletters (used to have a couple of inches of them in the files) was not produced and then produced only if there was actual orders placed. 

His son might be able give you some details. I remember him trying to sell off what remained after Jan's passing. That would probably be covered in the magazines.

Jan Jr. was hitting the meets with a several table and crates of stuff for a few years - almost all partail bits and bobs, and leftovers.  Some useful even.

I never owned a LWS kit, But I heard certain of them could be quite challenging.

Simon

"Challenging" might be a very polite word to use. Last steam engine I got the drive was literally impossible to build and install as designed........and then the tires fell off the drivers.....

After more than a decade of intimidation I finally conquered (sort of...) a 2nd LWS MP54 kit in Feb/March.

Fun!  Nurse Ratchet tells me I'll be getting better soon......right after Godot delivers the meds.

mwb said, " 'Challenging' might be a very polite word to use," regarding the construction of LW Kits...

I fully agree! I own several of these LW Kits and find they are very basic that require significant skills and equipment for detailed brass soldering and construction. Often, the Kits' build instructions were incomplete, generic, or even missing!  IMHO, I take pride in constructing a Brass Kit that lasts a lifetime instead of purchasing a read-to-run plastic model, where detailed plastic models will become brittle and easily break over time.

LW specificly tried to sell products to a much smaller model builder market by reduced pricing for basic kits with mixed Brass/White Metal parts. IMHO, I believe that LW Brass Kits were made for a lower cost at a time when the needs and interests of O-Scale modelers were different... LW Kits seem intended for O-Scale Modelers willing to "get their hands dirty" while building these Kits for a sense of pride when completing a difficult task. Less detailed and fewer Brass Kit parts enabled lower LW Kit pricing. However, other smaller 3rd-party companies started to made individual detailed brass castings (ie Cal-Scale, PSC, and Bowser) that could be purchased as add-ons for LW Kits and other manufacturers like CLW.

The USA Consumer preference for O-Scaled products later changed where if a product breaks or needs repair, just throw out the old product and buy a newer product for immediate personal gratification! The USA O-Scale consumer market also changed where 2-Rail products with plastic parts and shells are now delivered ready-to-run with more detail at a lower cost. The higher manufacturing cost and time needed to cast Brass shells and parts led LW & other O-Scale manufacturers to slowly transition from Brass to to more use of Zamac or "White Metal" castings. 

Lionel blew away the vintage O-Scale collectors market for older and heavier pre-1970s USA-made plastic models when they flooded the O-Scale consumer market with mass-production of ready-to-run locomotives manufactured at a lower cost overseas. This over-production marketing "push" to consumers seemed to contribute to Lionel declaring corporate bankruptcy reorganization 2 times. I wonder if this type of marketing push and over-production recently resuilted in MTH going out of business without a coprorate buyer.

Many smaller companies that make Brass parts have merged, been sold off, or are no longer in business, while brass parts are much harder to  find.  As a result, I have started to make my own detailed Brass parts using a basic 3D printer. I am still learning about detailed casting my own 220/260 Grade Brass parts using lost-wax sand methods since I purchased a Thermolyne FD-1530 small Furnace for melting Brass. I wonder if the future of detailed O-Scale modeling will eventually shift back to "make your own" Kits with "print your own" Brass Kits...

Jan produced a newsletter most of his years.  It was an interesting read.   I doubt I saved many - I shall look.

I bought only one kit - a tank car.  Its wrapper was .010 - just right for boiler bands.  Domes were PSC, and wound up on a scratch tank car.  The rest was simply scrap brass with directions.

Judicious buying got me some really good stuff - Lobaugh Berk frames, really good coined drivers, enough 66" USH drivers to last a while, a Penn Line gearbox that still works, eventhough the worm was phenolic (unheard of in the gear world).

And he was a good guy, and smart.  Just not a good kit producer.

"Challenging" .

Got a set of drivers from LWS,   Noticed one was loose.   when I took the wheel off the axle,  I saw that the axle ends had been "knurled" by hand with a pair of diagonal cutters--very crudely .  They were all like that , and all out of plumb to there centers.  Not the end of the world, as I over bored them on my lathe and turned new axles , but it would have been better if LWS had not attempted to "assemble" them.

It is my opinion that anyone who has not scratch built or does not have broad metal fabrication experience, must not buy these kits as they still show up on ebay. 

@bob2 posted:

And he was a good guy, and smart. 

Indeed he was!

The drivers - you had to be very careful.  He ordered a bunch from Korea, and they were very good quality.  Then, after his stroke he sent the axles and crankpins out for nickel plating.  As you might guess, when he pressed those, a crescent-shaped piece of brass was broached out of the hole.

The only thing worse than varying crankpin throws is eccentric wheels.  The only cure is, as you noted, a good machine shop.

@mwb posted:

"Challenging" might be a very polite word to use. Last steam engine I got the drive was literally impossible to build and install as designed........and then the tires fell off the drivers.....

After more than a decade of intimidation I finally conquered (sort of...) a 2nd LWS MP54 kit in Feb/March.

Fun!  Nurse Ratchet tells me I'll be getting better soon......right after Godot delivers the meds.

Pretty much an affirmation of my opinion of LWS.  But, hey, to be considered equal opportunity, we got to try and satisfy those who are into masochism. 

Simon

@Simon Winter posted:

Pretty much an affirmation of my opinion of LWS.  But, hey, to be considered equal opportunity, we got to try and satisfy those who are into masochism. 

Simon

I have learned something here today -- EEO covers masochism!

In spite of the moans and groans about LWS kits, if a modeler had some prior experience, a decent job could be done. My first attempts at building in brass and soldering was an Arvid Anderson hopper car.  I followed that with an All Nation steam kit. Work on LWS kits came later. My first LWS effort was rebuilding a poorly done UP DDa-40x for a friend.  It was badly damaged at our model RR club when it derailed. Someone tried to pick it up with one hand and bent it in half. Jan Lorenzen was very helpful in providing some replacement etched panels and other parts the first builder had not used or lost. One weakness of LWS diesel kit is that the modeler was expected to build a frame for it to accommodate the motor and drive. I made one for it to fit two Pittman 9xxx series motors and put in Central Locomotive Works drives after re-enforcing the soft cast metal 8 wheel trucks.  Another kit from LWS was a cast resin body ALCo DL-109 my friend got at an LWS Open House. With it, he found and bought a set of Adams & Son brass castings for an FT-A unit with truck side frames. We looked for the B unit that should have been with it, but it was not found.  Both locos got fames I made that were fitted with Pittman motors and CLW drives.  Those three models were sold by his family after he passed away. The last LWS model I built was the "economy 0-6-0" kit which modeled a C&NW switcher from the 1890's. By that time, my skills improved to the point where this 0-6-0 camelback model having that kit as its basis, is completely different. One kit remains to be done. It's the Ingersoll-Rand GE 300 HP box cab switcher.  In all model making, its not the stuff you use to make a good looking model whether its brass, aluminum, cast resin, plastic or even cardstock and paper. It's all in how one makes use of the materials at hand.  

S. Islander

This is an interesting thread.

Back in the mid-late '90s, I bought a LWS kit; it was an Alco S4 (maybe). Consisted of brass parts for the body and frame (I think) and maybe the truck side frames...which would have been soft metal, as was the long hood's "nose". I remember calling and speaking with Jan about it prior to purchasing. No motor, gearing or wheels...

Anyway, I had it for a while then decided it was 'way above my pay grade; I didn't want to ruin a perfectly good kit, so I sold it...hopefully to a good home. I wonder what state it's in now: was it ever built? 

Mark in Oregon

Very interesting Islander, that SIRT camelback is a real jewel.  I had not recalled LWS making a DL-109 kit in resin either, I assumed they were all either etched "wrapper" CLW type kits with nose castings or cast car bodies along the lines of the Penn-Erie or 1st generation CLW or Alexander.

On a related note I have a Stephenson Repro version of the LWS "Jersey Janus" DR-6-4-20, Bob replaced the original "design's" four piece nose castings with single castings for each cab end, but otherwise it's an etched carbody "wrapper" with some detail parts. You're on your own for the frame, trucks etc.

I had not recalled LWS making a DL-109 kit in resin......

 

 

Nor I.  Don't think I ever saw anything from LWS in resin.  Some very funky styrene, yes.

@S. Islander posted:

In spite of the moans and groans about LWS kits, if a modeler had some prior experience, a decent job could be done. 

I always wished that I had gotten a 2nd PRR H1 kit from Jan regardless of all the issues of the kit,

I am posting this for my friend who does S Scale (he is not on the forum). He asked me to provide some info on some other things Locomotive Workshop made. Plus ask a question, that maybe someone has any info.

My friend says that, Many years ago Loco Workshop manufactured some S Scale kits.  All pretty rough stuff, definitely master craftsman kits, not because they built up to really nice models, but because you needed those kinds of skills to make sense of them!   At any rate, Jan passed away some years ago and my history side is trying to find out exactly when he passed away and what happened to things.

He would like to know if anyone knows exactly when Jan Lorenzen passed away and how to contact his son? I will pass on any info you guys come up with.

Thank you for your help.

Last time I spoke to young Jan the son. He was working for USAir at JFK and lived in Brooklyn (I think).

That was during the last O National in Parsippany NJ.

Our O scale club president models in S scale on his home layout. He built an LWS GE-44 ton kit in S scale. I suppose it's gratuitous to tell you it took a lot of work, as I recall his biggest issue was the kit was designed to be powered by a re-axled Tyco HO switcher chassis, needless to say the tedium ran high with that build.

MY dear fellow hobbyists and builders of all, as I have attempted in my life.....I now have two of the S Gauge 44 tonner kits by Jan...I,m sorry that the bug to have one did not bite until the year 2001, at a convention for S gaugers in Scranton ,Pa (Bidens ) town...no??? In the most recent purchase, last week from EBAY, was the motor mechanism with a very strong magnet intact...and sure, it had to have come from a HO diesel, what with the 28 "  wheels..ergg....Many things were thought out by Jan...Some details for body trim were not...But, I did finish the kit from Steam Depot bought at Scranton, and gluing  body parts was not necessary...so much easier...(the body casting was done by Hodgson I believe) ...I went a step further , and cut out one door and made a opening door as in many photos you see of 44 tonners..And there it sits , waiting for a corporate paint selection--how about FORD motor co...hmnn...But then , other than the other kit from Smoky Mt model works ( which could be sold out by now, or a brass one from RIver Raisin models, these two LW kits will start a building soon...if the shop superintendent will allow.....It was gratifying to see all the remarks (and I loved the humor)....I could tell you about the minimal room for truck swivel , even as small as it is...Hmnnnnnnn  Arnold Kloian (who would master all that he sees)       

I have an LWS PRR E-44 that has what appears to be an All Nation drive:

Whoever built it did a good job on it with the exception of the cab number on one side, note the 4440 on the otherwise numbered 4400:

That looks great!  I have one not quite that far along - home made trucks, CLW six axle 2 motor power.  Needs handrails (ugh) and paint.  Someday . . .

Fyi, i just came across a Baldwin BP20 A and B unit body kits by Locomotive Workshop on evil bay. Auction closed at $67.00 for the two body kits.

Jan's kits required you to be an inventive craftsman, that's for sure. But he was a very nice guy and I hope he is remembered in that regard.

Franky-Ogee

@TRAINMANTIM posted:

I am posting this for my friend who does S Scale (he is not on the forum). He asked me to provide some info on some other things Locomotive Workshop made. Plus ask a question, that maybe someone has any info.

My friend says that, Many years ago Loco Workshop manufactured some S Scale kits.  All pretty rough stuff, definitely master craftsman kits, not because they built up to really nice models, but because you needed those kinds of skills to make sense of them!   At any rate, Jan passed away some years ago and my history side is trying to find out exactly when he passed away and what happened to things.

He would like to know if anyone knows exactly when Jan Lorenzen passed away and how to contact his son? I will pass on any info you guys come up with.

Thank you for your help.

Per the "Mailbag" column of the late O Scale News 48/ft issue 174 Sept. 2004 Jan Lorenzen passed away June 7, 2004.

Simon

@PRRMP54 posted:

I have an LWS PRR E-44 that has what appears to be an All Nation drive:

Whoever built it did a good job on it with the exception of the cab number on one side, note the 4440 on the otherwise numbered 4400:

nice model Dave. you need to swap out that pan for a Faiveley type. We had many names for these motors, "Bricks" for the obvious reason. "Rectifiers" because of the rectifiers that converted overhead AC to DC traction motors. and "vacuum cleaners" because of the load blower noise.

that looks very nice for a LWS model. Is the body aluminum castings?

@David Eisinger posted:

nice model Dave. you need to swap out that pan for a Faiveley type. We had many names for these motors, "Bricks" for the obvious reason. "Rectifiers" because of the rectifiers that converted overhead AC to DC traction motors. and "vacuum cleaners" because of the load blower noise.

that looks very nice for a LWS model. Is the body aluminum castings?

Yes, it is.

I remember "helping" a friend hand up orders at Union and definitely remember the blower noise.

The E44 sold by LWS was an aluminum Penn-Erie casting just like all those different flavors of U-Boats they catalogued. My brother has one too, though I believe sans drive and trucks, it does however have a pair of Faively pantographs. They're neat if unusual models in general.

Greetings everybody -

Just wanted to say thanks for those tackled the challenge of building one of my dad's kits.  Those who tried and stumbled on the build, I can say you aren't alone.  I do acknowledge that the instructions were not exactly the best and the kits were pretty basic (ok, I can use the word "crude") compared to what you can get today.  I am in the middle or so of building one of the brass Electroliner kits, and encountered a number of areas I had to really put my engineering hat on plus my artist's hat and come up with solutions that I was going to be happy with, so I can feel your pain.  But when the solution came and came out right, it was a pleasure. Its also teaching me to take my time and fabricate what I can't find elsewhere from what I have to get what I want.

These kits filled in a a gap where the cost of import brass was too high for those of modest means, and there were still folks around with home machine shops.  Many of the guys who I remember visiting got their skills in the 40's and 50's when this was actually fairly common.  For many of us, if you wanted a model of something you liked, you had to make it yourself.  That was the concept.  So LWS provided the basic stuff at a reasonable cost and you had to do the rest yourself. 

Believe it or not, I still have several hundred pounds of brass left over from LWS and taking up space in my basement.  Some of the raw materials are Lobaugh origin.  Many of the parts which I knew would be useful to others I've sent over to Keith Wiseman.  There's still alot of white metal castings and bits and pieces in the boxes I brought up from NJ when I finally cleaned my parents' house out.  Its not easy to find a new home for hunks of half hard brass!  There were 650lbs of cast iron driver blanks that I ended up donating to the RR Museum of LI to use as tokens or gifts.  I have the prototypes my dad partially built to bring to shows, plus a few that were actually completed on the shelves.  Some of those I have to dip to get the machining fluid off of them.  I have what ever masters I could find. I even kept some of the die work.   To be honest, towards the end of my dad's life the quality of the work was not the greatest.  But he kept on going until his last days, even if he didn't feel all that well. 

I've been teaching myself how to fabricate in brass using hand tools, home made fixtures and the dremel.  Personally, I won't use the BernzOMatic plumber's torch my dad used in the shop (I live in a wooden house butt up against other wooden houses here in Brooklyn), so an old Radio Shack 10w/40w iron and a MicroMark resistance rig are used to great effect.  I don't have the machinery we had in the shop, although due to the shortage of small shapes, I sure wish I had that shear.

If there is a desire for a complete LWS production catalog, I might be able to piece one together.  We started out making HO at one end of the kitchen table in 1963 or thereabouts.  O scale came in the later 60's.  S scale dabbled in the 70's.  Somethings I would have to figure out from memory, some from the newsletters.  There was quite a variety of things that came out.

Thanks again everybody, will try to keep in touch in at least one of the one line forums or FB until we can see each other again.

Jan Karl Lorenzen

Jan, good to hear from you. I remember being in the basement of your Mom's house with you, sifting through the crates and crates of materials. I still have the few items I brought home with me. If I recall you are part of a group in Brooklyn restoring some PCC cars or trolleys?