Long Live the 022!

Another interesting topic Arnold, thank you. No doubt the opportunity to explore the switch components, and other opportunities you provided,  were a catalyst for your son’s career. My 10 year old grandson has an interest, and after instruction, he does things independently. When the time arrives for the extensive wiring underneath the layout, my knees and back are hoping he becomes a quick study.

My decision was to build with tubular track and to use the 022 devices with my PW equipment. However, during the lockdown I rediscovered EBAY and bought a lot of 18” passenger cars; my layout was not yet built. The cars derail on the housing when taking the switch. Another problem solving opportunity.

Jay

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

My son, now 34 years old, a mechanical engineer, and much smarter than his Dad, was fascinated as a boy by the mechanism of the 022 when we opened it up. Even at the age of 5, he would get bored running trains, but he was fascinated with their insides when we endeavored to fix them. This was particularly true of the 022. I believe the mental stimulation my son got as very young child with Lionel trains helped develop his powerful brain, and influenced his chosen career path.

S.T.E.M. in action, before it was known as STEM.

The process worked for me 55 years ago, worked for your son more recently, and still works very well to this day.

Thank you Arnold, and all others who do the same, for cultivating technical interest and hands-on skills.  The world is a better place because of it,

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

S.T.E.M. in action, before it was known as STEM.

The process worked for me 55 years ago, worked for your son more recently, and still works very well to this day.

Thank you Arnold, and all others who do the same, for cultivating technical interest and hands-on skills.  The world is a better place because of it,

Mike

Mike or anyone else who might know, what is S.T.E.M. ?

My guess is it has something to do with the 022 switch mechanism, am I correct?

Arnold

The housing needs to be back about 1/4”.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Mike or anyone else who might know, what is S.T.E.M. ?

My guess is it has something to do with the 022 switch mechanism, am I correct?

Arnold

Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

I have a question, since I know nothing about postwar, why is it called O22?  Certainly that isn't the radius of the switch, right?

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Mike or anyone else who might know, what is S.T.E.M. ?

My guess is it has something to do with the 022 switch mechanism, am I correct?

Arnold

Yes but only in a broad way.

S.T.E.M. stands for Science, Technology, Engineering and Math, and it's a very recent acronym for knowledge that technical toys, and technical educations, have taught for over a hundred years.

Relatively recently the acronym was created to remind people not to give up on technical careers simply because they're challenging, and particularly for their children so as to provide encouragement for kids not traditionally drawn to these well-paying fields.

Mike

@MikeH posted:

I have a question, since I know nothing about postwar, why is it called O22?  Certainly that isn't the radius of the switch, right?

You are correct, Mike, that 022 has nothing to do with the radius of the track.

I believe all of my 022 switches have curved track sections with an 031 radius.

Why did Lionel call these switches 022 switches? I have no idea. Arnold

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

S.T.E.M. in action, before it was known as STEM.

...

Mike

Worked for me also.  At 7 years old I had to tear my 2 month old Lionel engine christmas present apart, figure out the brushes were worn out, earn 25 cents, walk to the hobby store and order new ones and then go back and get them a week later.  Mom said all 4 of her sons could tear things apart, but only the 2 of us could put it back together working.

My mother told me years later my much older brothers ran the train non-stop all night after setting it up which probably accelerated the death of the brushes.  Knowing the finances at the time it may have been a used set to start with. 

@MikeH posted:

I have a question, since I know nothing about postwar, why is it called O22?  Certainly that isn't the radius of the switch, right?

O22 is the item number from Lionel that was on the ID plate.  O42 was the manual version.  Both 031" Diam (thanks for catching the error).   The 711 was the prewar O72 curve.   731, prewar T rail switch and so on.    The O27 switches had their own ID's.    O22 has become the verbage to refer to the postwar O31 curve automatic switches.   They went through a few design iterations over the years.

That’s great information VHubbard. The design iterations are helpful. Thank you.

Jay

Have Ten postwar 022 on my down and dirty basement layout. I am still impressed to this day with the return reversed loops, no need to do anything, the mighty 022 does the job. Many loops returned direction over the years!

In the mid 80’s a few were bought modified with shorter curved portion. I remember they were $8 each, plugs, lanterns & motorized. Best of all they all still work like a charm! Rarely a derailment experienced!
But inside a couple of decades later Lionel 022 proved to be more than a turn out (in fact turned out very well indeed).
     Arnold, my son Marcel an engineer as well was most fascinated with their non derailment concepts! hearing this often “Dad, let’s take apart an engine next! Son, you can memorize Greenbergs post war repair book and show me how!”

022 probably one of my favorite postwar pieces of equipment.

Interesting post as always Arnold!

You may recall that Lionel tried to replace their venerable O22 switch with the #6-23010/#6-23011 0-gauge switch in 1995 which featured a new look and the ability to remove a portion of the curved section allowing for more track planning options. The switch became controversial due to alleged derailment issues. I still operate these 25+ year old switches and they occupy some strategic places in my layout. I have had no issues with postwar, MPC, or modern era trains operating on these switches.

Don, do your more modern Lionel switches shown in your post, which look similar, but not identical to 022 switches, have fixed voltage plugs or their equivalent, so they can be powered independently (not from track power)?

Look at the four  wire connection screws on the side, one is for fixed voltage if I remember correctly.

@hokie71 posted:

Look at the four  wire connection screws on the side, one is for fixed voltage if I remember correctly.

Thanks, Hokie, that makes sense. I'm unfamiliar with the wire connections on that switch track.

Don, I never knew these existed. Will they accommodate an 18” passenger car? Thank you

Jay

On my previous layouts, I always had the 022. I did try a pair of the 23011/2, but not for long: the small plastic tab just before the frog eventually wore and broke and caused derailments. I've also tried the 042 Fastrack: the lower rails made it too easy for my larger engines to tip over, and my Williams scale GG-1 never would go through them (likewise the K-Line and MTH 042). The last layout I built used the manual 042 (no wiring - hurray!), and my GG-1 could fly through the prewar 072 manual no problem (I added a 1/3 section of 042 track to the curved end which matched the diameter of the rest of the 042 curve). So, yes indeed those manual and automatic Lionel switches were perfect, and the pity is that they are no longer made, BUT: those old ones are everywhere at shows for just a few $ and still work after all these years - just like the old trains themselves.

@artyoung posted:

So, yes indeed those manual and automatic Lionel switches were perfect, and the pity is that they are no longer made, BUT: those old ones are everywhere at shows for just a few $ and still work after all these years - just like the old trains themselves.

Amen!

But, this 022 fan also loves modern command control locomotives. Arnold

Jay - I don't have any "scale" length passenger cars in my fleet - they just don't make sense for a spare bedroom size layout. I imagine if you either removed the lampstand on the #6-23010/#6-23011 switches (which is easy to do with a screwdriver - they were designed that way) or moved if to the side opposite the diverging curve you could pull it off. You may bump your passengers around if the engineer goes a little too fast!

Art - I've never suffered any broken tabs on my switches after 20+ years of service.

Thanks Don, I have experimented with changing the sides but then it encroaches on the adjacent rail. Even going slow through the switch causes it to derail. Passengers complain about the delays.

I had a bunch of these on my 2003 layout. I used them without the curved piece added. in effect they gave a 42"diameter curve. I no longer have pics of the layout.

About 15 years ago when I decided to create a layout from my 50 year + Lionel trains that were stored in boxes. I had about a dozen 022 switches and they all worked, despite their age. I eventually switched over to K-Line supersnap track and began to replace my 022's. Unfortunately the 022's had the switching mechanism in a box that stuck out horizontally from the switch and was often in the way. I realized you could reverse the box but I preferred the more svelte supersnap switches.

One problem I ran into with the supersnap switches is when they joined separately powered sections. With the 022's you just used fiber pins but the supersnaps just clicked together. My solution was to resurrect the 022's for this part of the layout.

Just my two cents.

@VHubbard posted:

Both 031" Radius.

Both 14.14" radius.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Why did Lionel call these switches 022 switches? I have no idea. Arnold

The previous version was catalog #021, catalog #022 was just the next number.

@ADCX Rob posted:

Both 14.14" radius.

Thanks, my brain is word dyslexic at times.  Corrected.