Making the Best of What We Have

Your message rings true. It applies not only to our hobby, but to every facet of our lives. Happy New Year to all.

Agreed! Model railroading is always caricature because the longest model railroad would be a very short shortline if scaled up to 1:1. If it is good caricature it works by suspending disbelief and our liddle minds enter right into the miniature world we are trying to create. Gigantic or 4X8 if it works its great.

Quality not quantity.  I've seen tiny layouts with so much detail, they put some of the largest layouts to shame.  The nice thing about our hobby is that there are so many different ways to come at it.  From the fine scale layouts to post-war types and then the strictly toy train layout.  Each has a place in this fantastic pastime.  

I've often thought about not making another large layout and how nice it would be to do a country layout with a small electric line. I can print my little steeple cabs and I have a couple of box cabs, so I really wouldn't need any more. 

Lew and Dan nailed it, it’s not the biggest or best, or the smallest and least expensive, it’s how much Fun you have with the hobby and your connect group of friends you are fortunate to share time with. We learn from everyone, either good things we wish to duplicate, or things we probably wouldn’t. There are so many facets of the hobby, it’s amazing to see others works of art. I’m not envious, just thankful I get to enjoy the great folks on the OGR Forum. Great thread, thanks for your thoughts. Happy Railroading 

When building a model railroad, the challenge for me was to see if I could build something interesting and realistic in a small space.

MELGAR

Melgar, my sentiments exactly

Yes, large opulent layouts seen in magazines are impressive.  They can be inspirational  but not necessary to derive joy from this hobby.  I guess I am a less is more person and KISS is my mantra. How creative can I be with my allowed space is the quest.

Arnold: An excellent philosophy!

One of the best layouts I've seen is only 5x9.  I don't care if your layout is 4x8 or 185x30 like our club layout is. As long as YOU enjoy it, that's all that matters.

One of the things which I feel is a shame is the number of folks who hesitate to invite others to see their layouts because they feel they are too small.  I don't care if your layout is 4x8, if you invite me to see it, I'm there!  I've spent many an afternoon talking trains and life with those who have a small layout and I'm sure many others on the forum have as well.  We all make the best of what we have - don't be ashamed to share it!

-Greg

My brother stopped in to see my layout once.  After about 5 minutes he looked at me and says, "They just go around in a circle."

It shows a really frightening lack of imagination!

Arnold

Excellent topic. When I was a kid in the mid to late sixties, I had a 4x6 layout board with Life-Like artificial grass (died sawdust) Match Box cars and Hot Wheels for vehicles, some plasticville buildings and toy soldiers for figures. So, my Lionel and Marx trains were running through this Twilight Zone village where all the citizens were armed with machine guns and rode around in custom cars designed by Daryl Starbird (Mattel used his designs when Hot Wheels first came out). Did I mention that the Hot Wheels were actually closer to HO scale?  But I really enjoyed it and so did my buddies.

rkenney posted:

My brother stopped in to see my layout once.  After about 5 minutes he looked at me and says, "They just go around in a circle."

It shows a really frightening lack of imagination!

That's like asking Leonardo DE Vinci if all the Mona Lisa does is smile. 

This thread has hit on the essence of model railroading.

 We’re all in it with the common bond of an electrically powered train yet our layouts vary widely from the most basic (a loop of track on a carpet) to the very complex (a full basement-sized railroad empire). Expanding on that, I remember struggling in the early years trying to decide what type of layout I wanted. And of course that goes beyond size to include brands, control systems, railroad eras, level of detail of scenery, and cost. The list goes on. 

What I found is that ultimately you have to find what speaks to you. In my case, I finally ended up with a conventional postwar-style layout. Too plain, boring to some? Maybe. But it’s what speaks to me.

It’s a great hobby!

Let's face it, the vast majority of us have homes that have 'limitations' on rooms and space. But, that does NOT mean we toy train enthusiasts have to be limited by the 'norm' of conventional thinking. 

Its true we can make do with what we have, and then go in other 'directions' with scenery, operations, or, we can explore other opportunities like tunnel through basement walls, build tiers or build lift-out bridges that allow access to utility and workshop rooms, expand into attic, or even build an addition to the house, lol.

Making the best of the 'space' we have and being grateful for what we have is the keystone of the hobby IMO.

Interesting thought Arnold, but it appears by reading so many topics here on this forum, to go entirely against current trends. And it isn't just the manufacturers per-se, though they certainly stand to benefit from selling us "something new." It's also the consumer who never seems to be happy with what is being offered.

How many threads do we see posted about what folks would like to see offered in the hobby next. Sometimes it is new tooling. Sometimes it is new technology. Either way, given the small production numbers (excluding the traditional line starter sets), it is all expensive to produce. An new design HO locomotive with diecast frame and plastic body costs around $450,000 to make the tooling alone... just the dies. Not including R&D hours, test shots and all the other related costs. Double that for our trains. Diecast body will be even more. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Lionel's new 21-inch passenger cars cost a quarter of a million dollars to bring to market: A lot of money given how many they will actually sell.

It's not like the Lionel of yesterday, where there were large production runs of products with shared parts... parts that were pretty much standard items for many years. With the ever-advancing features being offered in trains now, some product components become obsolete after only a few years of production.

Then there's the issue of parts. No company today stocks parts the way they once did, never mind the obsolesce factor. Even with the LionChief line, there's one single master circuit board that does everything. If something goes wrong with the engine, the engine is dead and the board has to be replaced - if it's available - and from Lionel only. No going to your favorite parts dealer.

Sure, you can strip any of these modern feature loaded engines down, and just put in a F-N-R circuit board and a generic sound board, but then what's the point of paying top dollar then for an engine, other than it may be a scale proportioned model that was never offered before? In the case of LionChief, your remote would serve no purpose and you'd have to buy a transformer to replace the wall wort.

Personally, I'm not effected by any of this. I have what I have, and I like what I have. It always works, and when a repair is needed, it's easily fixed. I understand my space and budget limitations and am content with that. My trains have all the top dollar features, just in my imagination. 

The one place it does affect me is in the current prices for new traditional sorts of rolling stock, which are right behind the prices for the scale versions, and in some cases, even more. USA made LionScale is priced lower than many foreign made traditional cars.

So often here, on threads about the new scale products, you can find the comment, "With what we pay for these trains." True, they are a lot of money. But what you're really paying for is the ability, the possibility, the privilege of being able to purchase unique scale proportioned, featured loaded trains that are made in very small production runs... numbers that would have been unheard of years ago. And when you consider the prices overall on all new products, we are all paying for it, regardless of your niche interest in the hobby.

I can't add much more to what's already been said, but as one who follows many different forums (as I'm sure most of us do), I have to wonder if this philosophy really rings true, especially here. 

A great many topics will often deal with the latest release (or what is hoped to be made); that's human nature, I know,  but isn't that counter to the very idea being discussed in this thread?

It seems to me that the "Next Big Thing" (and the purchasing thereof) is often (a/the) primary focus, especially in the current "plug and play" world we now find ourselves in. (Perhaps I should add here that I am just as guilty as anyone else...   )

So yes, the idea of "making the best of what we have" is indeed a beautiful one, but honestly, does it really fly in our consumer-based world? Being satisfied is not what drives the market; heck, Cowen and Gilbert both recognized that a long time ago!   

Mark in Oregon

Another great topic, Arnold.  I for one would have trouble filling and maintaining a large space.  Those of us born in the ‘50s or earlier only have so much time left.  I would rather concentrate on a layout that is manageable as I get older and isn’t a problem for my wife and daughters when I am no longer able.

Making the best of what we have was once considered a virtue but seems to be a vanishing concept nowadays. And the irony is that many of us already have so much. My concern is about those who have little.

MELGAR

This is my idea of a simple layout. Don

I use whatever available space I have. If it’s a lot that’s great. If it’s small that’s also great. The kids are gone and  so are all the parties in the basement. I used to set up 4x 8 layouts at Christmas and take down after January cause that’s all I had room for. Now the entire unused basement is my train area. I can now take my time and add or change areas on the layout to add to the enjoyment. Big or small I’m happy to have my area for escaping everyday hassle.

On the other hand Arnold we are in a hobby where even a small increase in available resources opens up significant additional possibilities for enjoyment.  I remember a friend of mine commenting that if I could just have increased the width of my layout by another foot or two I could have wider curves that would let me operate a wider range of locomotives on the same basic plan.  I then had to point out that if I had an additional foot or two to play with I would have gone with a much different layout plan than the one I used. 

Another issue some of us face is that sometimes we need to admit we made mistakes and move on.  A number of the items I acquired over the years made sense at the time, given my resources, my vision of what I wanted my model railroad to be, and what was available on the market at the time.  Even though I still like some of these items, the truth is that even some of the ones I like no longer fit with my model railroad vision today.  When this happens it is sometimes better to admit you made a mistake and move on, rather than trying to make do with what you have.

geysergazer posted:

<snip> Model railroading is always caricature because the longest model railroad would be a very short shortline if scaled up to 1:1.<snip>

Wow... that sentiment, especially containing the use of that vile word "caricature", ruffed the feathers of many of the "serious" modelers on another forum I frequent!

It happened because a chap showed up that's working on a darn near perfect replica of John Allen's "Gorre & Daphited". When some of the "serious modelers" began to nay say the attempt, others pointed out that ALL model railroading is a gross compromise and typically a caricature of prototype trains.

WRONG APPROACH! The "serious modelers" started going so far as the break down the semantics/definitions of the word "caricature" etc. What a fuss fest!

I thought it all ridiculous (and probably said so, can't remember). Some folk really take this hobby way too serious.

Let a fellow enjoy the hobby HOWEVER he sees fit, fer cryin' out loud!

I think it's quite simple: My way ain't your way, nor is your way my way... so why an issue with that simple concept???

Andre

Y'know...  Sometimes I feel my most enjoyable time in model railroading was in my early teens (the 1960's) when I had very little cash to work with, built stuff out of balsa, cardstock, siding papers and the occasional kit. 

No command control, no sound, just plain ol' DC HO on fiber tie brass flex track and of course, the wonderful NMRA X2F couplers.  (Also, no adult responsibilities...)

Major additions like a locomotive were few and far between, which I had to save up for from my small allowance.  Somehow, I managed to stay in the hobby.

Rusty

I won’t lie, there are times when I look at the layouts in here, or the prices on some new products, that I wonder if I am in the wrong hobby. However, I never think that when I am in my basement playing with my layout, and I especially never think it when I am on the floor in front of my Christmas tree layout, watching trains and petting my dog.

Rusty Traque posted:

Y'know...  Sometimes I feel my most enjoyable time in model railroading was in my early teens (the 1960's) when I had very little cash to work with, built stuff out of balsa, cardstock, siding papers and the occasional kit. 

No command control, no sound, just plain ol' DC HO on fiber tie brass flex track and of course, the wonderful NMRA X2F couplers.  (Also, no adult responsibilities...)

Major additions like a locomotive were few and far between, which I had to save up for from my small allowance.  Somehow, I managed to stay in the hobby.

Rusty

Rusty,

You just described me down to the age, decade, and products I used.  I’m hoping retirement can bring the same joy in the hobby

I like this thread a lot, it describes where I am at as I try to find the time and resources to build my first permanent layout in a long time.  A lot of the time people who say "Making the best of what we have" can make it sound like you shouldn't dream or it is wrong to want to dream of that big layout with all the time and expense, bemoaning the 'wasted money and time', but Arnold described it wonderfully, that it is it is great to dream but not having that 'dream layout' should not dissuade us from having one at all, because having any layout is better than not having one at all (as they say, a lousy day fishing is still better than almost anything else you label as "good", like a good day at the office, a good day doing home repair, or often a 'good' NY Jets game *lol*).

As I plan and build my layout, it can be hard to bemoan the compromises that money and time and space make, but I realize I also have the makings right now to actually build and layout and have fun. If I have to run conventional operation because the cost of track and other needed things will preclude me being able to run command control with the cost of converting engines/buying new ones, the command units themselves, etc, that is fine, I'll pre wire the layout for legacy and dcs, do block wiring for my conventional transformers, and then will either add a legacy command base with  a couple of powermasters wired into the block wiring,  or swap in a ZW-L with the command base, whichever I can afford at the time. Then down the road, I can convert my engines to TMCC level, and add DCS eventually to allow running MTH engines in command mode, I can design for the future while enjoying the present. 

I am not critical of the train magazines or videos that  tend to show the showplace layouts, besides the obvious that a large, dazzling layout makes for great copy, speaking for myself it also is very hard to submit an article about a more modest layout, assuming it isn't 'good enough', 'it is too small, too plain', "no one would want to see it'....so ipso facto it is the bigger, more spectacular layouts that dominate. It is much like the car magazines, a lot of the copy is around cars few of the people reading them can really afford,but it still is nice to dream. 

I would like to add that, although I think it is a very good thing to make the best of what I have, I would still love to have more space for an enormous layout with breathtakingly beautiful scenery and top of the line model trains.

Indeed, I recently posted on another thread that I absolutely love the OGR 50th Anniversary blue ray 2 disc set that show such enormous and spectacular layouts. I think it's wonderful that some of us have such layouts, and it's even more wonderful when those that have them are willing to share them, by having them photographed and videotaped, written about, and by inviting people over to see them in person.

Will I ever have such a layout? Who knows, maybe I will some day, though I tend to doubt it. 

Am I grateful for what I have? Yes.

Am I very pleased that I have figured out a way to turn my half basement into my own little railroad empire by tunneling through a wall so the trains really go someplace (this was important to me) because they leave the playroom in my half basement, travel through the laundery room in my half basement, leave the laundery room and return to the playroom in my half basement?  Yes, and by doing so, I believe I have made the best of what I have.

We are all interconnected, on this Forum and in many other ways, sharing the joy and happiness that our model trains and railroads have brought to our lives.

Arnold

leapinlarry posted:

Lew and Dan nailed it, it’s not the biggest or best, or the smallest and least expensive, it’s how much Fun you have with the hobby and your connect group of friends you are fortunate to share time with. We learn from everyone, either good things we wish to duplicate, or things we probably wouldn’t. There are so many facets of the hobby, it’s amazing to see others works of art. I’m not envious, just thankful I get to enjoy the great folks on the OGR Forum. Great thread, thanks for your thoughts. Happy Railroading 

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winnah!

Larry, you've described the best parts of our hobby better than most anyone can.

As layout builders we always "make the best of what we have".  We dream, we plan, we build, we relish in a job well done.  The real fun is the job is never done, there is always more.  The more may be modest but we continue to dream, replan and we modify or rebuild.   Some dreams realized are are more grandiose then others but there is always the satisfaction of operating the fruits of YOUR imagination.

It looks from our recent replies that we are, for the most part, on the same wavelength. Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

It looks from our recent replies that we are, for the most part, on the same wavelength. Arnold

Arnold, We are all richer for having known each other whether we know some here in person besides on the Forum or have never met face to face.  I know I appreciate your thought provoking input!!

I am typing this while doing my post knee replacement surgery exercises.  I’m on the recumbent bicycle beside my little layout I started in 2019 and dressed it up for Christmas.  Here it is.

I can totally relate to this post.  We moved a few years years ago to a house with a similar sized basement as our previous house.  The "new" hundred year old house has a block wall running down the middle dividing it into two rooms with all the mechanical/utility spread all over the place.  I spent last fall modifying and squeezing all but one of my tables in the space leaving a tiny path to the washer and dryer and pretty much filling the rest of the usable space with layout. Then it just sat there. After all that work I think I got claustrophobic and I just didn't enjoy being down there anymore.  

After much thought over the summer, this fall I got down there and took two tables down and did a little re-arranging.  It's amazing how much usable space I was able to gain from letting go of two 3x8 tables.  I now have room for a small work bench,  a tiny area to sit, and doing laundry is much easier. 

I'm  really happy with the change so far. With the new set up one room contains basically a return loop to feed the small around the walls (and furnace!) layout in the other room.  It takes about a minute to run a slow freight all the way around and depending on where you're standing you loose sight of the train a few times.  Its not the dream giant layout I imagined as a kid, but it really is the best I can do at the moment.  Realistically between work, chasing around a five year old, and working on the yard and other projects this little layout will probably keep me busy for quite a while!

Strummer posted:

I can't add much more to what's already been said, but as one who follows many different forums (as I'm sure most of us do), I have to wonder if this philosophy really rings true, especially here. 

A great many topics will often deal with the latest release (or what is hoped to be made); that's human nature, I know,  but isn't that counter to the very idea being discussed in this thread?

It seems to me that the "Next Big Thing" (and the purchasing thereof) is often (a/the) primary focus, especially in the current "plug and play" world we now find ourselves in. (Perhaps I should add here that I am just as guilty as anyone else...   )

So yes, the idea of "making the best of what we have" is indeed a beautiful one, but honestly, does it really fly in our consumer-based world? Being satisfied is not what drives the market; heck, Cowen and Gilbert both recognized that a long time ago!   

Mark in Oregon

Most of us do look for the next best thing to come down the pike.  I suspect it's what keeps the economy moving forward.  So who's to blame for the over abundance of stuff, the consumer who asks for a better mouse trap or the manufacturer who changes the mouse trap, ever so slightly, making the old one obsolete ?

What a great thread Arnold!!

My small home layout has a ground level window and often I open the blinds and the neighbor kids will watch me run trains through the window. It gets a little crowded at times but they do enjoy it and often ask when I'm outside when I can run them again.

Here's a POV video I shot of my home layout a while back to demonstrate my homemade camera car:

https://ogrforum.com/...5549118903864/a/true

Build what you like. That way you will like what built.

Arnold, you made a lot sense in what you said. 

 For me this Hobby is an art form, where We create a miniature world from our perspective that is within our Talents abilities finances and of course Real Estate

  Be Grateful for what you have, not what you “aint got”

Al

Arnold,

You are the philosopher (Socrates?)  of the forum.  Very compelling responses too so you have many kindred spirits. Great thoughts to start 2020!

How can this happen from a lawyer?  

Thank you, my fine Forum friends, for your kind words.

When I joined this Forum a little over 2 years ago, I had no idea that so many of you would turn out to be such fascinating people. This is evident, not only from your comments and contributions, but also from your Forum profiles. Arnold