Mike and Howard. Why not a Polar Express tinplate set?

I don't know if Lionel would want an O gauge tinplate set as it would (even if done as a joint venture) partially compete against their O gauge offerings, but I would love a tinplate standard gauge Polar Express, and it wouldn't compete against anything Lionel is currently making.  They've done O, G, S and soon HO, so why not do standard gauge before moving off to do N and Z?

Andy

Chris,

You did an amazing job with those cars. I think that the biggest obstruction would be the Warner Brothers Polar Express trademarking. The Lionel agreement may be exclusive. I'm 99% sure that their agreement with Lionel would not extend to Lionel Corporation Tinplate (MTH). You're talking about two separate companies despite the similarity of the name. Lionel has extended this branding to G, O, and HO.  

Very nicedly done, Chris. What paint did you use for the Polar Express blue? Krylon's satin burgandy is an excellent match for P.E. red but I have yet to find an acceptable match for P.E. blue, so exactly what did you use for P.E. blue and where did you get it?

that looks great Chris.

ogaugeguy posted:

Very nicedly done, Chris. What paint did you use for the Polar Express blue? Krylon's satin burgandy is an excellent match for P.E. red but I have yet to find an acceptable match for P.E. blue, so exactly what did you use for P.E. blue and where did you get it?

Off the top of my head I don't remember I did these a while ago but I'll take a look. The blue is a bear to get close to an exeptible match but I did use the burgundy you mentioned.  

I agree with Chris, this would be great to see in a catalog.

It would depend on whether Lionel has the right to lend its license to LCT. I don't know the terms of the license agreement. Commercially, Lionel would still earn the royalty from the tinplate set through the LCT license agreement and through any agreement to lend the PE license. So, it would make sense if there is enough demand.

I would like to see the O gauge coaches first. I have some black engines I could pull them with. I would also buy the Standard gauge coaches.  I prefer the Ives Transition Coaches like the Black Diamond ones.

I would also like to see the gold engine. That would be cool in tinplate!

George

I tend to agree a nice Std Gauge PE set should sell well.

Steve

A 392e and comet cars would be nice!

Sunrise

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

I tend to agree a nice Std Gauge PE set should sell well.

...

Absolutely agree.  It's been on my Standard Gauge wish-list since I joined the tinplate ranks a few years ago.  We've discussed this here on the forum several times, yet I forgot to ask Mike W about this when he visited Nicholas Smith Trains and upgraded my DCS a few months ago.  My bad.   

If I see Mike or Andy at the MTH booth next week at York, I'm gonna inquire about this.  We all should.    Worst they can say is "No can do".  But let's keep our hopes up!!!  For Standard Gauge, I can see a 400E with anywhere from 3 to 6 state-sized passenger cars... the usual 3-coach set, plus baggage, solarium and extra coach all decked out in blue and burgundy with gold trim.  I'd be in for the whole offering! 

David

A well done PE Tinplate would pull me into the shiny side!  I have been looking for years  for that first set that really appeals to my idea of a tinplate train set.  Brass or chrome trim, deep rich colors and that sheen on the paint.  Now, hold on to your trouser, but I have a real problem with the paint color on the cars of all Lionel PEs.  To me, (my opinion) those cars in the movie are a rich blue, not a pastel rose blue from the 70's.  Make the passengers cars a rich deep blue,  nice wine burgundy accent with gold letters and trim pulled by a multi driver black engine... and I'm all in. 

I totally agree w/ Chris's Polar Exp LCT proposal.  Like the recently released S and HO versions, a tinplate PE would also continue to extend the Polar Exp movie brand.  Personally I felt that a tinplate PE version would have been a more appropriate 10 yr. anniversary offering than the O gauge diesel Ft ribbed passenger set.  The FT set was a nice "modern" looking set with passenger car interiors that IMO resembled what a modern day excursion line might offer in the Polar Exp theme.

Hopefully Lionel, MTH and Warner Bros./Castle Rock can come to an agreement to make a Polar Exp. LCT offering a reality.  It certainly would be a win/win/win/win for each of the companies AND us.

I created my Polar Express ( I changed it to The Ryder Express, my grand sons name, and put pictures of his family in the windows. I also changed the trucks so he can run it with his post war engine ) with Lionel 610 & 612 Tin Plate cars. I used the Krylon Burgandy & Dupli-color G.M. Blue... If you want exact match spray paint you can have it mixed at the auto parts stores, but it is pricey.

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

I tend to agree a nice Std Gauge PE set should sell well.

...

Absolutely agree.  It's been on my Standard Gauge wish-list since I joined the tinplate ranks a few years ago.  We've discussed this here on the forum several times, yet I forgot to ask Mike W about this when he visited Nicholas Smith Trains and upgraded my DCS a few months ago.  My bad.   

If I see Mike or Andy at the MTH booth next week at York, I'm gonna inquire about this.  We all should.    Worst they can say is "No can do".  But let's keep our hopes up!!!  For Standard Gauge, I can see a 400E with anywhere from 3 to 6 state-sized passenger cars... the usual 3-coach set, plus baggage, solarium and extra coach all decked out in blue and burgundy with gold trim.  I'd be in for the whole offering! 

David

A 400E with state cars would be nice but you would be looking at about $2000 plus for that set up!   I think starting out slow with a RTR set in O and standard gauge that maybe most of the masses can afford then see how it does.  If they do well and I think they would then why not do something in a higher end set. If for some reason they can't get the licenses why can't they do the colors at least?    Lionel did that with the Polar RR series.   Again; I'm not sure how all that works into the agreement. 

Chris Lonero posted:

... If for some reason they can't get the licenses why can't they do the colors at least?    Lionel did that with the Polar RR series.   Again; I'm not sure how all that works into the agreement. 

Chris,

I spoke with Mike Wolf at York today about a couple of items, and this time I didn't forget to ask him about an LCT Polar Express Train.   Unfortunately, that topic of conversation lasted for all of  about 10 seconds.  Lionel's exclusive licensing apparently is a sticking point that will likely keep this from EVER happening until different heads prevail at Lionel.  It was certainly a let-down to hear this, because everybody knows (including Mike who has already approached Lionel with the idea) that a P/E offering in tinplate would sell like hot-cakes.  Unfortunately the suits at Lionel don't want to loosen the strings on their current licensing agreement with Warner Brothers -- even if Mike were to include the offering under the existing LCT arrangement. 

Perhaps another day, but I'm not holding my breath after talking to Mike.  As for producing a train with the P/E color-scheme without reference to "Polar Express"... I suppose it's worth asking him that question directly when you see him at York.  But when Mike and I were talking briefly today, I understood him to say that he had already approached Lionel to do a Lionel Lines train (ala LCT) in Polar Express colors, and even that was denied.  Apparently, the suits at Lionel get to sign off on anything MTH currently produces under the LCT licensing agreement using the Lionel name.  Understandable, but also limiting.    

I suppose we should be happy that there's an agreement of any kind at all between MTH and Lionel to produce "Lionel Lines" tinplate products.  I've heard Mike say on other occasions that he wouldn't be producing as much of today's tinplate line as he currently is doing were it not for the ability to use "Lionel Lines" on many of the products... or under the banner of Lionel Corporation Tinplate or Lionel Electric Trains.  Me personally?  I could give a hoot whether the Lionel name is on tinplate products.  I got over  Lionel being the be-all / end-all of toy trains YEARS ago when I realized that the Lionel of today bears absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to the Lionel of yesteryear.  Today's Lionel execs just happen to be moment-in-time honchos in what is admittedly a revolving door of players who have authority and ownership of the "Lionel brand" a few years at a time.    So I'm not particularly interested in paying one penny premium for ANY product just because it says "Lionel" somewhere on the product or on the box.  But I respect Mike Wolf for doing what he does in this hobby with so much passion.  So if he says the Lionel name helps him sell more tinplate, then I trust him on that commentary.  Unfortunately like many things in life, we take the bad with the good.  

David

Hi David. Thanks for running it by him. At least we have some kind of reason even tho we may not agree with it!  Maybe you should ask him about the color!     Look at the 2017 catalog in the back. Check out the colors of the country station!    Look familiar?

If the lawyers won't let that happen, how about offering items in kit form that are pre-primed and ready to be painted and assembled by the end user? Basically the same as was done with the 700K back in the day. Any good auto paint shop could match the PE colors. This would not just be limited to Polar Express fans but any paint job a person desires.

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Chris,

I spoke with Mike Wolf at York today about a couple of items, and this time I didn't forget to ask him about an LCT Polar Express Train.   Unfortunately, that topic of conversation lasted for all of  about 10 seconds.  Lionel's exclusive licensing apparently is a sticking point that will likely keep this from EVER happening until different heads prevail at Lionel.  It was certainly a let-down to hear this, because everybody knows (including Mike who has already approached Lionel with the idea) that a P/E offering in tinplate would sell like hot-cakes.  Unfortunately the suits at Lionel don't want to loosen the strings on their current licensing agreement with Warner Brothers -- even if Mike were to include the offering under the existing LCT arrangement. 

Perhaps another day, but I'm not holding my breath after talking to Mike.  As for producing a train with the P/E color-scheme without reference to "Polar Express"... I suppose it's worth asking him that question directly when you see him at York.  But when Mike and I were talking briefly today, I understood him to say that he had already approached Lionel to do a Lionel Lines train (ala LCT) in Polar Express colors, and even that was denied.  Apparently, the suits at Lionel get to sign off on anything MTH currently produces under the LCT licensing agreement using the Lionel name.  Understandable, but also limiting.    

 

David

And what was Lionel's response when you asked them about it?  Or didn't you ask?  I'm just truly curious if there is more to it than the "suits at Lionel" not wanting to loosen the strings?  But if you didn't ask them I guess we just get half the story.  Will you be at York tomorrow to ask.  Maybe someone else?

I've always been surprised that they didn't make one especially since the train set running around the tree at the end of the movie is clearly supposed to be made of metal.  (Looks like a Marx wedge tender too.)

Here's my version.  A 2026 with paper labels and 2400 type (mid 90's production) streamliners riding the "viaduct to nowhere" a few years back:

This will be up and running before election day! 

MartyE posted:

And what was Lionel's response when you asked them about it?  Or didn't you ask?  I'm just truly curious if there is more to it than the "suits at Lionel" not wanting to loosen the strings?  But if you didn't ask them I guess we just get half the story.  Will you be at York tomorrow to ask.  Maybe someone else?

Marty, when I stopped by Lionel's booth, I was hoping to ask Howard to get his take, but I didn't see him there.  Mike R was surrounded by quite a crowd of enthusiasts, and I was only gonna be at York for a few hours on Thursday.  Hopefully, somebody else may have asked.  Did you? 

There could certainly be legal T's & C's surrounding the arrangement with Warner Bros.  Corporate lawyers are often known to get in the way of getting things done!    But I'm just speculating here.  Hopefully, we'll get a full answer from both parties some day.  But for now, it doesn't sound like any of us should hold our breath.

David