Mini Comparison of Atlas CAZ observation to K-line's

Good comparison Art.  The most obvious difference to me, from your photos is, the rear portion of roof height on the Atlas car is CORRECTLY higher than the roof height portion of the car forward of the dome. The K-Line car missed that detail.

 

I must admit that I also do not care for the "extra shinny" appearance on the K-Line cars, and as a result, I my my buddy Gene, "dull down" the rear portion of the observation car on my K-Line New York Central Empire State Express set.

I enjoyed your review.  Thanks

I am not certain why, but the Atlas cars without the passengers are not as noticeable as other other cars are without passengers.  The only place they are really noticed is in the dome area. I may not have to populate the cars as much as I thought.They are just absolutely stunning at night.  Now we wait for the dinnet and baggage cars. 

Buzz

Art.

Thank you for the review and pictures.  I have always been turned off by the mirror finish on the K-line doors and end-caps.  I like the Atlas much better, and the tinted windows really add a lot to the overall image of their cars.

Counting the days till Atlas announces the Santa Fe Super Chief complete 10-car set.

I would have to put this into perspective. In fairness, the K-Line set is over 13 years old, and for many years, were considered the state-of-the-art. Atlas has had the advantage of the latest technology in modeling, so this is not a level playing field for comparison purposes.

 

Aside from the details, personally I prefer the shiny to the dull finish. That dull finish is a real deal breaker for me. Just my opinion.

Art, thanks for taking the time to photograph and post the comparison photos.

 

Me, I like the bright finish of the overall model of the K-Line despite the excess bright finish of the plastic parts.

 

I don't have a photo of the prototype CZ, but this photo of a Texas Special prototype is the "gold standard" for stainless, fluted models:

 

 

Art....thanks for the comparison...well done!  In my mind, when running the train, the K-line finish looks more like the real thing.  One has to remember that the K-line cars for the most part were generic so window, dome, etc. details may not be specific to a particular prototype.  I agree that the chromed ends, domes, etc. on the K-line cars are too shiny but if one is willing to remove and give them a light spray of dull coat, when reapplied, they look great.  Heck, one could probably carefully tape out the chromed pieces and spray directly...??  Plastic cars painted to look like metal in my eye look like painted plastic   Bottom line, the current line of passenger cars that we have available from GGD, Atlas, etc. are fantastic models but for me, I sure wish we could get a more metal-like finish on the stainless versions...

 

Alan 

PTC posted:

In fairness, the K-Line set is over 13 years old, and for many years, were considered the state-of-the-art.

I was thinking the same thing when I posted above and I was wondering what K-Line would have done in those years.  Lionel and MTH had upgrades to their passenger cars in those years.  One can only guess what K-Line might have done.

 

Alan and I agree on his "wish we could get a more metal-like finish on the stainless versions...

 

HO has done a good job.  Atlas has hinted that they have nailed the stainless finish used by Athearn on their F units.  I hope they can extend that to passenger cars the way Walthers has done in HO.

 

Here is a Walthers HO El Capitan.  I assume Walthers F units and passenger cars.  They certainly capture the look of stainless.

 

 

Also, here is the Walthers Super Chief which is plated plastic.

 

 

 

 

Spectacular!  You will notice, however that none of the equipment is weathered to match the REAL Santa Fe passenger equipment.  

I may have spoken too fast about the El Capitan.  I went back to do some research and the HO guys couldn't figure painted or plated.  Walthers called it a metal finish.

 

The Super Chief is definitely plated.

I am glad to see the comparison as I am waiting for my shipment from Public Delivery Track.

Mikey

Art, Thanks for the comparison. Both very cools sets indeed.

Excellent comparison thread. I agree with everyone's appreciation for these cars.

Great cars, preference for metal, great detail on the Atlas . . . .

It is amazing to me what can be done for a very reasonable amount of money.

Scrappy

 

I'm having a difficult time deciding which way to go with these cars.  My current California Zephyr with 8 K-Line 21" cars pulled by Lionel TMCC Western Pacific A-A F-3's is my favorite passenger train.  Whenever I have company it is the train that I run.

 

But when I compare them to the new Atlas cars, they show their age.  I have thought of having both, but that just forces me to compare them everyday.  If I switch to Atlas, I will have to change motive power too and get a set of E-7's in CB&Q.  To do that, I will have to either find a 3rd Rail set or do what Hot Water did with his Williams transformation.  (which was excellent by the way!)  I should have used CB&Q engines in the first place, but I have always loved the Western Pacific even though they only ran on the west coast and not out of Chicago.

 

Decisions......decisions

 

Art

Beautiful cars! After seeing the Atlas observation car at a local hobby shop I can't understand why they would have gone all out on the exterior and then left the interior looking so plastic with no figures (although the LED lighting is nice). Probably cost, but for those that can afford such a nice item I'm sure another $50 would not be a deal breaker for a beautiful and properly done interior (IMO).

 

Thanks for the great review!

JohnJr

Art, you should just break down and buy a set of the recently released Lionel CZ's.  Have I mentioned how much I really enjoy these works of art (no pun intended).  Lionel is probably the only company out there that paints metal shells to look like plastic; now that's thinking outside the box!  And...you can run the Lionel CZs with any other CZ cars and not worry about duplicates, as they are fantasy.  They may have greenie stick-um windows, but at least they don't make the passengers (which by-the-way are included) look green like when you install them in the Atlas Obs.  Why, I bet Hot Water even owns a set that he runs when no one's looking.

 

Rich 

Rich - You should warn me before you do something like this.  I almost hurt myself laughing.

 

Art

Very, very funny Rich. Sure enjoyed your comments. I particularly liked the one about painting metal to look like plastic.

Good thread, Art.  Thanks for thinking of it.

Chugman there is an easy fix for your problem, buy 2 sets of the Atlas cars and then so you don't have to suffer this daily comparison just send the K-line set to me. Problem solved!!!!!!!!!

I will sleep better tonight knowing that there is an easy fix to my problem.  Aren't train friends great? 

 

Art

I am there for you buddy, glad to be of assistance.

"If I switch to Atlas, I will have to change motive power too and get a set of E-7's in CB&Q."

 

Chugman, why do you have to change?  the WP F3's are still appropriate (although ABB would be more prototypical).

 

 

"I agree that the chromed ends, domes, etc. on the K-line cars are too shiny but if one is willing to remove and give them a light spray of dull coat, when reapplied, they look great."

 

does anyone have a photo showing this after it has been done?

Forrest - You are right, but I feel that I want to run the correct road name out of my version of Chicago's Union Station.  Even though the California Zephyr was pulled by Western Pacific F units out west, it was behind CB&Q E units in Chicago. 

 

I too would like to see pictures of K-Line cars with the bright, shiny plastic toned down.  I'm sure it is a big improvement.

 

I know that my attempts at realism are probably laughable to many when I don't go further and replace the couplers with Kadees and so on, but you just have to do what makes you happy.  If I can "convince myself" then it is a good day.  When I watch trains run on my layout and it can transport me back to a time when I was younger watching a real train, then it is all worth while to me.

 

Art

Art --

 

Thanks for the review, I found myself owning both the K-lines and the Atlas cars as well.

 

For me the choice came down to how they ran, at length and on curves. I wasn't able to get the Atlas cars to allow more than 8 cars before all heck would break loose, nor did they like several of our O-72 curves (Which they should be able to take), again all heck breaks loose.

 

Of secondary consideration was the finish, while I didn't find the Atlas finish bad, when several of the cars didn't match the others, I started having a harder time with it. I also like the bright K-line finish on the whole, but agree that the plastic bits are often a bit much. When taken together, the non-matched Atlas finish and the bright plastic bits, it was a wash.

 

In the end, happy fellow forum members now have the Atlas cars and the K-lines are under going LED lighting this summer, as well as a significant increase in passengers.

 

All the best, you've got a tough choice ahead, if I had to do it over, I would have kept both, running one with the WP and the other with the CB&Q.

 

Good luck,

Jason

 

"Forrest - You are right, but I feel that I want to run the correct road name out of my version of Chicago's Union Station.  Even though the California Zephyr was pulled by Western Pacific F units out west, it was behind CB&Q E units in Chicago. "

 

 

I understand completely. 

Art, 

 

There is an alternative, if you can not find an A-A pair of Sunset/3rd Rail CB&Q E7A units; that being MTH E8A-E8B-E8A units. Forget the E8B, as the Burlington didn't have any, so since it is a dummy anyway, just leave it in the box. If you are not modeling in the late 1950s thru early 1950s as I am, then the MTH Burlington E8 set would be idle for your CZ Atlas train set, especially since both A units are powered.

Art summed it up when he said:

 

"When I watch trains run on my layout and it can transport me back to a time when I was younger watching a real train, then it is all worth while to me."

 

Face it guys and gals, isn't that what all of us are really trying to capture.  

I like my Weaver E8s.

 

Dick

 

Interesting/ I didn't know Weaver made CB&Q E8 units. Are the side panels "chrome plated" to match the real ones?  Care to post any photos?

Jack - I want to ask for your advice about what is most prototypical to run on my California Zephyr out of Chicago in the late 50's to early 60's time frame.  I think it would be E units, but would it be E-8's or E-9's?  And also should it have red stripes or black stripes on the nose?  What would have been a typical lashup? ABBA?

 

I'm asking here because I think there are others that might like to know also.  And of course if anyone else knows, please chime in. 

 

Art

Art,

 

Let me do some additional research, and I'll post additional information later.

 

Concerning the locomotive consist, since the CB&Q did not own ANY E7B, E8B, nor E9B units, the CZ motive power was normally two A units back to back. However, as the train became longer, they sometimes used A-A-A units, with the front two "elephant style" westbound (although THAT could be hit-or-miss).

AMEN !

OK Art, here are some pert ant facts that should help you make up your mind (all from Burlington Bulletin No. 10):

 

1) The first E8A units were delivered between December 1949 and May 1950, consisting of 19 A units, with 'two 9 unit two-unit  locomotives numbered 9938AB - 9946AB", a sole single-unit was numbered 9937B. (Remember that the CB&Q did NOT have any "B Units", but bumberred all their E8A and E9A units in A & B road numbers).

 

2) A small order of five E8A units was delivered in August - September 1950, 9947AB - 9948AB, with the fifth unit numbered 9949A.

 

3) Both orders/groups of E8A units were identical with "aluminum-painted side panels and black nose striping".

 

4) A third group of six E8A units, delivered in August 1952, had the smooth, polished  stainless side panels. Road numbers 9964-9969. The black nose striping was still used.

 

5) The final group of E8A units, 8 units, was delivered in August-September 1953, 9970-9977. These units also had the polished stainless side panels and black nose striping.

 

6) The E9A units, delivered in July-August 1954, road numbers 9990-9995. All had the polished stainless steel side panels and black nose striping.

 

7) The final order of ten E9A units, delivered in January 1956, road numbers 9985AB-9989AB, again with the polished stainless steel side panels and black nose striping.

 

8) Beginning in 1959, the Burlington "Chinese Red" color scheme was adopted for freight units, and subsequently the fronts of all the passenger units were repainted from the black nose striping to the red nose striping, being completed within a "couple of years time". All the lettering and numbering remained black.

 

Hope this answers all your questions.

I have the MTH CB&Q E-8 ABA from 2008 and they look good on the Chicago to Denver leg,then I cut in the D&RGW Lionel Alco ABA from 1992 with TMCC added to make the run to Salt Lake then I cut in the WP Legacy ABB for the final leg to Oakland.

Mikey

Thanks, Jack!  That is exactly what I was looking for. 

 

Art