Toys--all the way.
To me, 3-rail track and mass-production= toy trains.
Of course they are toys. The only thing about them is that they have grown up prices attached to them.
The word "TOY" is meant to be used when describing any object a "CHILD" uses for entertainment. If the word "TOY" is used to describe an object an adult is using for entertainment, the word now becomes misused. So once you turn 18 years of age and you become defined as an adult, you can no longer define an object that you use for your entertainment as a TOY, because your no longer legally a child. We,re all adults here, so as adults, it is only proper to define these trains as models. If we use the word TOY, we are just abusing and misusing the word, not the object. If anyone here is under the age of 18, call them TOYS all you want.
They haven’t been “toys” in fifty years. Brio and such are toys; O-gauge trains are models and as such, constitute a hobby.
eBay has the answer! It's whatever you want it to be, even both.
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According to those that tax things they are toys!
Some seem really worked up over this. Why worry what others think. Call them whatever you want. I call them toys, you can call them elephants for all I care. Lol. This has been an entertaining thread.
TexasSP posted:Some seem really worked up over this. Why worry what others think. Call them whatever you want. I call them toys, you can call them elephants for all I care. Lol. This has been an entertaining thread.
I know several adults who consider high end trains toys and several who do not. What's interesting to me is that those who consider them toys never get upset when someone states they're not, but those who do not consider them toys take issue when you refer to their trains as toys.
Probably a byproduct of personality. Psychologists and psychiatrists discuss.
-Greg
I'm 71 and I still play with my trains so to me they are my toys. Anybody can call them what they want.
Dave
Let the courts decide.
Greg,
Some people see you calling their trains toys as being in league with calling their stuff junk. The definition of the word toy has those devaluing attributes so it is not out of reach that someone would get upset. If someone tells someone else their stuff is junk, generally it is considered rude. And the word can certainly be used in a pajorative manner. As soon as you put the word "just" in front of it, you may have done it already. You may have devalued something that someone cherishes or may have worked hard to purchase.
On the other hand others see the word for its positive attributes.
But to tell someone their trains are toys and expect the reaction to be positive is presumptuous. It pesumes others view the word the same as you do.
My trains started out as toys when I was a kid and I see no reason to change the name.
Toys
Toys are objects to have fun with. Hobbies are pastimes used for relaxation. Therefore, model trains are toys. Model railroading is a hobby.
I think I'll go attend to my hobby and run some of my toys. 
Paul 
Dave Zucal posted:The word "TOY" is meant to be used when describing any object a "CHILD" uses for entertainment. If the word "TOY" is used to describe an object an adult is using for entertainment, the word now becomes misused. ...
Dave Zucal posted:
you should have read the complete definition...
: something a child plays with
: something that an adult buys or uses for enjoyment or entertainment
: something that is very small
there is no doubt that children's toys have changed over the years. next time you get ahold of a Marx M10005 articulated car, run your finger along the bottom sharp metal edge and then tell me you'd give this to an unsupervised child to play with.
Toy. Model. Hobby. Therapy. Call it what you want, it is all the same to me. Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to go watch my toys run in a circle, and enjoy every minute of it. 
DUCK SEASON!!!!
Both.
I collect scale models of mostly Pennsylvania RR Trains. I admire the scale accuracy and research the history of these scale models. I display some of them like my wife displays her Norman Rockwell Figures. I build a background (layout) for them that is as realistic as possible. This is my hobby.
Once I put them on the track and start running, I become young again and my daily troubles disappear in the chuff of the engine and the blast of the whistle. These are my Toys.
Overlander, you didn't post the heading over those lines. Those lines are suggestions for teaching the English language as to how some can interpret the word. The definition is at the top of the page. As words get stretched beyond their meaning and new words get created, dictionaries and definitions grow. CHRISTOPHER N&W hit the nail on the head. People do use the word toy to describe a cheaply made items they consider junk. Example: My Vision Line is an accurate scale model. Your Williams is a toy. I'm sure my example would hurt the feelings of the Williams owner who struggled to afford his Williams. It's all a matter of choosing our words wisely.
I consider them toys, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Daver, you can't get much more definitive than the OED...
1.1 An object, especially a gadget or machine, regarded as providing amusement for an adult.
likely being the richest language in the world, English not only evolves, but frequently changes meaning with usage. a toy poodle is usually reckoned as a living animal, but in other context, it may also be a Barbie accessory. don't be upset if someone calls your expensive, accurate, scale models toys. it may be inaccurate, but it is not a misuse of the word.
As Greg stated in his comment of being a psychologists and psychiatrists discussion, that discussion is not in the positive realm. They don't view it as a hobby and an escape for our minds from this crazy world like we do. They view men who "play with toy trains" as something abnormal. Are we the crazy ones then?
For me it is easy and simple. If it does not run on 4-foot 8 1/2-inch or other legitimate narrow-gauge size IT IS a toy.
Ron
As Greg stated in his comment of being a psychologists and psychiatrists discussion, that discussion is not in the positive realm. They don't view it as a hobby and an escape for our minds from this crazy world like we do. They view men who "play with toy trains" as something abnormal. Are we the crazy ones then?
Do you have a basis for this statement?
In their definition of hoarding, the American Psychiatric Association recognizes collecting as not being a form of hoarding.
Overlandflyer,
You say the word, others interpret the words you use.
So, someone could hear you telling them their stuff is this:
something (such as a preoccupation) that is paltry or trifling
These words directly contradict the importance many of you seem to put on the value of your trains, not even in a monetary sense, but an emotional sense.
Something like Marx trains fits the definition of toy trains perfectly. Others, which is the question at the start of this thread, not so much.
I say scale models, not toys. I don't "play" with trains, I operate them. I always correct folks who refer to my trains as toys. Typically, kids play with toys, I would never give any of my scale locomotives to a kid to play with.
Dave Zucal posted:As Greg stated in his comment of being a psychologists and psychiatrists discussion, that discussion is not in the positive realm. They don't view it as a hobby and an escape for our minds from this crazy world like we do. They view men who "play with toy trains" as something abnormal. Are we the crazy ones then?
I've gone pretty much my entire life not carrying about the opinions of others. I won't start now. Let people think what they will. To me, it matters not in the slightest ... and I hope my two boys grow up with a similar disdain for tying their worth to the opinions of others.
I operate my trains during play time 
and I let my grandchildren (oldest is 7) run them as well. $50 or $1500 engines doesn't matter. I've run an MTH F3 at 80 smph, curves are wide enough so no fly offs and the children have not done that, they're more interested in the accessories, Bells & whistles and the PFA's.
Good Grief,
Some enjoy playing, some enjoy modeling, each views the same hobby differently because their approach is different.
A wooden toy maker that makes toys out of pine to be played with, and a toy maker making craftsmanship out of rosewood, are in the same hobby, but different worlds.
Someone that grows roses at home to enjoy the delightful colors, and someone that grows roses for competition, same hobby different worlds.
Some people keep fish to enjoy the color and movement, others keep fish recreate natural habitats... same hobby, different worlds.
Some people paint miniature armies to play battles, others recreate historical armies for modeling, often using the same figures.
All of these examples people are engaging in the same hobby with different approaches, and I guarantee you will find similar contention terminology.
<EDIT - and I am sure some people do both ,etc >
Definition of toy: an object for a child to play with, typically a model or miniature replica of something.
Model railroading seems to fit that description but the mindset of today's youth steers most of them away from model trains and from doing a hobby that requires manual dexterity. I don't believe that cost prevents this. The market is currently flooded with trains at great prices and consider that many kids have $900 iPhones.
We all know that the meaning of words is constantly in a potential state of change or additional meanings. It is instructive to see where it started; at least, to establish some sense of a baseline. So let's go back to the first recognized American dictionary: American Dictionary of the English Language, Noah Webster 1828.
TOY, n.
- A plaything for children; brawble
- A trifle; a thing for amusement, but of no real value.
- An article of trade of little value.
- Matter of no importance.
- Folly; trifling practice; silly opinion.
- Amorous dalliance; play; sport.
- An old story; a silly tale.
- Slight representation; as a toy of novelty.
- Wild fancy; odd conceit.
Dave Zucal posted:As Greg stated in his comment of being a psychologists and psychiatrists discussion, that discussion is not in the positive realm. They don't view it as a hobby and an escape for our minds from this crazy world like we do. They view men who "play with toy trains" as something abnormal. Are we the crazy ones then?
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christopher N&W posted:Greg,
Some people see you calling their trains toys as being in league with calling their stuff junk. The definition of the word toy has those devaluing attributes so it is not out of reach that someone would get upset. If someone tells someone else their stuff is junk, generally it is considered rude. And the word can certainly be used in a pajorative manner. As soon as you put the word "just" in front of it, you may have done it already. You may have devalued something that someone cherishes or may have worked hard to purchase.
On the other hand others see the word for its positive attributes.
But to tell someone their trains are toys and expect the reaction to be positive is presumptuous. It pesumes others view the word the same as you do.
Christopher - thanks for your response from a different perspective. I certainly can understand sensitivity to the word if folks have experienced it in a negative light. I also participate in another endeavor which at one end is highly analytical while at the other equates to throwing darts at a wall. It can be frustrating at times explaining the difference to the uninitiated who equate it to throwing darts at a wall. From a personal perspective, I do not mean to make less of anyone's enjoyment of the hobby whether it be a 4x8 carpet central with a starter set or a museum quality 2 rail scale layout. In short, my apologies to anyone in the non-toy camp who took any of my comments as a put down or attempt to devalue their efforts. It certainly was not meant that way.
-Greg
Age 5 - yes
Age 12 - possibly but!
Age 16 - no - no girls!
Age 18 - no - it's not a Camero!
Age 40 ish - possibly have a 5 year old!
By definition a toy “is something for a child to play with”. Being there are age disclaimers on the boxes up into the teenage years “toy” would be technically incorrect. Maybe a plastic or wooden train with a pull string more fits the bill. My friend calls his vette a toy, his wife calls him a toy- go figure. Personally it makes no difference what this machinery is called. I think the term toy implies “cheap”. Guess my friend’s wife is saying he’s cheap...just say’n
Gentlemen,
Don't you know that all us NASA Sr Engineers are considered by liberals, to be Crazy Nerds who once played, or still do play with O Gauge Trains.
PCRR/Dave
And we believe in God & carrying Guns also.
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