Those who "play" with their trains call them "toys", while those that "operate" them, "models". The latter terms are considered more sophisticated and adult-appropriate.

This debate comes up every once in awhile, it turns out the same, people here can't agree and the thread gets deleted. I believe what's going on here is some members are looking for one thing, and that's validation. Quite possibly some here were at one time offended by an outsider to the hobby calling them toys and in turn their ego took a hit. That's quite understandable, but the reason we partake in this hobby is to keep our childhood pastime alive, there's noting amiss about that, we all know that. I'd venture to say that most wouldn't have an issue with the term model, but it's the adult with the toy that ignites the debate. It's very possible some might have an inner conflict with a grownup playing with a toy, so we use a more politically correct term model to protect ourselves against being labeled with such a stigma.

No matter what we do in life, not everyone will agree with you, deal with it. The definition toy or model should never really be an issue here. Let's focus on what we all can agree on here, we all love model railroading , whether be it a scaled down railroad system or a carpet central, it gives us happiness and more productive lives.

Ok. My post so let’s delete it. Didn’t realize it would hit a nerve. Both toys and models are fine with me although I do consider myself a model railroader.

It doesn't need to be deleted, Rod. Like multiple posters have said, you'll never have everyone agree. Personally, I think both terms can apply.  Even in the new Lionel catalog I, for example, would be more inclined to say the Niagara is a "model", mainly because of the level of detail. Yet, some of the basic starter sets I would say "toy" because of the simpler, more basic "toy" appearance of years past.

To me they are toys just expensive ones. By definition a toy is any gadget or machine that brings amusement to a child or adult. Trains bring me lots of amusement and joy. So they are toys in my opinion.

But in the end no matter whether we consider them toys or not, they bring us all joy. We all love the hobby and love our trains. And that's all that really matters. We don't have to agree on what to call them, because either way we enjoy them and talking with each other about them.

Adults need "toys" too! But, what I do with my scale-sized model trains and scale-detailed layout is properly referred to as a hobby, and the models and layouts are not toys. Some people engage differently with their model trains and may therefore consider them to be toys, although I think that is a misnomer when applied to an adult. Either way, people can think of their trains whichever way best describes their mindset. And I'm not offended either way.

MELGAR

Unless you are hauling paid freight or paying passengers, i would say they are toys.  Toys come in many shapes, sizes and price tags.  But they're still just toys and entertainment.

Regardless of the number of rails, the size of the scale, or the realism of the model, its just a toy.

aussteve posted:

Unless you are hauling paid freight or paying passengers, i would say they are toys.

So, where does this fit in?

Rusty

Bagels and... Jell-O shots?  

That guy knows how to party.  Makes me wonder to where or what those tracks lead to...

Dave Zucal posted:

The word "TOY" is meant to be used when describing any object a "CHILD" uses for entertainment. If the word "TOY" is used to describe an object an adult is using for entertainment, the word now becomes misused. So once you turn 18 years of age and you become defined as an adult, you can no longer define an object that you use for your entertainment as a TOY, because your no longer legally a child. We,re all adults here, so as adults, it is only proper to define these trains as models. If we use the word TOY, we are just abusing and misusing the word, not the object. If anyone here is under the age of 18, call them TOYS all you want.

I don't think it really matters, but there doesn't seem to be an age limit put on the use of the noun, "toy".

I don't think #2 applies to the OGR forum for sure.

Rusty Traque posted:

aussteve posted:

Unless you are hauling paid freight or paying passengers, i would say they are toys.

So, where does this fit in?

Rusty

That looks like the restaurant on 16th and Franklin and I think those were paper containers of maple syrup for the bagles and pancakes.

Definitely classifies as hauling paying freight.  So it's not a toy, but rather a working piece of restaurant equipment just like the grill and coffee maker.

Not sure that Dr. Oz or today's health inspector would approve of the food handling, but I would like to see a few more cords plugged into that electrical outlet.

That looks like the guy who played Floyd Smoot, who helped run the steam engine on the 60's TV series Petticoat Junction. BTW, that restaurant probably wouldn't pass today's food service inspection, no gloves and the over used wall outlet.

Tinplate Art posted:

Those who "play" with their trains call them "toys", while those that "operate" them, "models". The latter terms are considered more sophisticated and adult-appropriate.

Yet they both run on track in many cases round and round...

Dennis Holler posted:

Tinplate Art posted:

Those who "play" with their trains call them "toys", while those that "operate" them, "models". The latter terms are considered more sophisticated and adult-appropriate.

Yet they both run on track in many cases round and round...

Some only go dead end to dead end...

Kind of like the points in this  topic...

<full tilt sarcasm, not directed at either side, any point, or any person>

Who puts syrup on bagels?  Is that New York thing?   Notice those engines are pretty weathered.  Been hauling revenue freight.  A toy that makes you money.  That’s the best of both worlds.

Several definitions of toy has been thrown out, how about hobby.

From the 1976 edition of The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: "An occupation, activity, or interest, as stamp collecting or gardening, engage in primarily for pleasure; a pastime."

www.dictionary.com: "1. an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation."

www.merriam-webster.com: "1. a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation."

For many on this forum, it is fun to play with their toy trains and watch them go fast around the layout.  They add dinosaurs, space men, and cartoon characters to enhance their fun.  This is how they enjoy their trains.

For me, this is a hobby.  I find pleasure in making the layout look and work well, and enjoy understanding the history of my chosen era. I've compromised on three rails because it allows me to do more operating in the space I have.  And it is relaxing after a long day to watch the trains run.

the term toys annoys me. I prefer to call them operating replicas.

WABBIT SEASON!!!!

William 1 posted:

Who puts syrup on bagels?  Is that New York thing?   Notice those engines are pretty weathered.  Been hauling revenue freight.  A toy that makes you money.  That’s the best of both worlds.

Heck no that's not a NY thing.  Canadian maybe, but not a New York thing.

To me all O, HO, N, Z, G trains will always be toy trains....that's what makes them fun...no matter what the cost...remember back in the day when Lionel first came out with 'toy trains' some sets were worth a mans weekly salary...compare that to today and the costs are not much different....I love my TOY TRAINS!!!!

Greg Houser posted:

Christopher -  thanks for your response from a different perspective...  

Greg,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I thought the whole discussion thread was pretty straightforward and respectful at any rate.

Does it really matter? Just have fun and enjoy the hobby. 

They are toys... regardless of how much you spend on them. They are a wonderful escape from reality and can drive the imagination. In the end, who really cares? It's a hobby that we here enjoy (while our signifiacant others may not) and that is all that matters at the end of the day.

Electric Trains always been toys, always will be toys.

  Bill

Whether toylike or on the more realistic side, our toy trains provide an imaginative, creative, and fun way of passing time.A passtime or hobby we all obviously enjoy and relish is playing with our toy trains!!! 

Maybe we should ask the professionals at Toys R Us. They seem to draw a line in what they sell in the toy train department. Why not go all the way since there all just toys?

Dave Zucal posted:

Maybe we should ask the professionals at Toys R Us. They seem to draw a line in what they sell in the toy train department. Why not go all the way since there all just toys?

You mean like this LC set?

https://www.toysrus.com/product?productId=98040066

The reason they don't sell more Lionel is - I would hazard a guess - based more on economics than whether or not they define Lionel trains as toys. They sell plenty of drones, which inhabit a similar niche market as O gauge trains, and have no problem as to whether they're tools (which they definitely can be used as) or toys. If they could make a profit from selling trains, I bet they would.

Did you ever hear of a magazine called Classic Toy Trains?

Just sayin’.

I call them as "model trains".  Some of my friends, so as not to be embarrassed, refer to me as a collector, as if there is something more cerebral and socially acceptable in that. I really don't care either way. I collect and play. Is there childishness in me? You bet. Some of my friends fawn over horses, polish antique automobiles, drink and eat for fun, travel, watch TV, collect guns - doesn't matter to me. In my train room I put strife aside, r-e-l-a-x, and enjoy my naivety. There are too many serious people out there doing stupid things for me to worry about it. I might add that this is quite a contrast from the first post I ever put up here. If I can find it I will copy and paste it so you can see what I mean.

Yes, these manufacturers need to change their websites to:

Lionel Toy Trains

MTH Electric Toy Trains

Sunset Toy Models, etc...etc.

SantaFeJim posted:

Did you ever hear of a magazine called Classic Toy Trains?

 

Just sayin’.

There's also one called "Model Railroader," another called "Model Railroad News," and yet another called "Model Railroad Craftsman."  Then there's a little thing called the "National Model Railroad Association."

Also just sayin'

Rusty

Whatever throws your switch.

When I was a kid, models were things that you or someone else built from a kit or from scratch. Toys came in a box ready to use. Like a Monogram hot rod kit vs a Mattel Hot Wheel. When I got my first train at age 12 things began to blur as I couldn't call my ready to run Tyco and AHM trains toys, even though they were not my traditional idea of models either. I fudged things a bit by building structure kits and some Athearn rolling stock kits so my trains were more like models to me than toys. That interpretation carried me just fine for many years. Then I got into On30 and everything truly was a model. I built locos and rolling stock from scratch and sort of looked down my nose at those who had to buy Bachmann On30 because they couldn't roll their own. After a couple of years of that I burned out on any kind of model or toy train. Too busy making myself build to actually run anything. No play value I guess. Eventually I dragged out my Dad's old postwar Lionel trains and started playing again.

What I have now I call vintage electric trains. Sounds cool like vintage tube amps or vintage hot rods. Lately I have begun to model railroad again by using RTR equipment and building models of rolling stock, locos, and structures, but not in a traditional sense. I model railroad using old toy trains as my inspiration.

Dave Zucal posted:

Maybe we should ask the professionals at Toys R Us. They seem to draw a line in what they sell in the toy train department. Why not go all the way since there all just toys?

What a good friend told me that manages a Target Store. When they had the Lionel sets a few years ago at Christmas the sales were terrible for the shelf space allotted. To much space for the revenue returned.

  Bill

Have a good friend that has both a highly modified 1967 Corvette and an all original (forget year) GT350.  He calls them both his toys, and they're worth quite a bit more than most people's trains.

Second story, my sons ENT Surgeon, who is a fantastic guy, referred constantly to all the equipment and tools in his office as toys.  Keeping in mind these were all serious instruments used for his very serious work, he still understood the necessity not to take it too seriously.  This doctor is also one of the top ranked ENT's in Houston time and again, so he obviously took it serious enough to know what he was doing.

So my point is, why take it so seriously?  Nothing here is life or death, just something we do to distract from life's more serious matters.  Call it a toy, a model, art, or whatever, don't forget to enjoy what you are doing.  Also don't ever feel the need for others to validate what you may enjoy.

Sure is a lot of "RATIONALIZATION" going on in this thread.

Will never forget over fifty-years ago first day of ninth-grade English.  Really  good looking teacher, first thing asked us all to define that word.  has stuck with me.

Really expensive toys like motorcycles, boats and 4 wheelers but yes still toys.

PRRronbh posted:

Sure is a lot of "RATIONALIZATION" going on in this thread.

 

Some folks here might find the word "toy" a little embarrassing when applying it to the hobby. So in hence we try to convince ourselves that they are models. Basically what the thread is about.

I can't imagine any one posting on this forum that would get embarrassed,  if someone referred to their trains as toys.

We all seem well adjusted and thick skinned

My PiP, he remarks "WOOF-WOOF" !!  (Dog for 'toys' let's play).

I never saw what the big deal was. Call them what you will. I have fun with them, so they certainly aren't "work"; I "play" with them.  I am retired. I no longer work. I play.