More Amtrak Heritage cars from Golden Gate Depot

Well, at least one GGD slumbercoach is phase III...

Boilermaker1 posted:

Well, at least one GGD slumbercoach is phase III...

Nice!  Did you do the painting yourself?  Phase III is my preferred era and someday, I'll probably repaint most of my fleet for that.

I have at least one of every Amtrak product GGD and 3rd Rail has made over the last 10 years.  Two 4-4-2's, the 10-6, four PS Coaches (with four additional to sell), the El Cap set, and two FL9s and 3 E8s.  The Silver Meteor in Amtrak interested me as well as I'd like more fluted car options, however it takes more than two sets to make that happen. 

I'm in on 8 Amfleet cars should the project go forward. 

On a separate, but unrelated note, I recently added three Atlas sleepers and am seriously considering the Lionel coach and baggage car if the price is right just to experiment with how the go with the Atlas as well as my GGD and K-Line Amtrak cars.  The observation and dome car are not to my personal liking and I don't have any interest in a diner with sound.   

GG1 4877 posted:

On a separate, but unrelated note, I recently added three Atlas sleepers and am seriously considering the Lionel coach and baggage car if the price is right just to experiment with how the go with the Atlas as well as my GGD and K-Line Amtrak cars.  The observation and dome car are not to my personal liking and I don't have any interest in a diner with sound.   

I bought the 2 pack by Lionel and painted the trucks black.  Also mixing Atlas, Lionel, K-line here with GGD.

The station sounds diner is quite the gimmick isnt it.  Want food service, pay for unwanted expensive sound 

GG1 4877 posted:

Boilermaker1 posted:

Well, at least one GGD slumbercoach is phase III...

Nice!  Did you do the painting yourself?  Phase III is my preferred era and someday, I'll probably repaint most of my fleet for that.

I have at least one of every Amtrak product GGD and 3rd Rail has made over the last 10 years.  Two 4-4-2's, the 10-6, four PS Coaches (with four additional to sell), the El Cap set, and two FL9s and 3 E8s.  The Silver Meteor in Amtrak interested me as well as I'd like more fluted car options, however it takes more than two sets to make that happen. 

I'm in on 8 Amfleet cars should the project go forward. 

Just the letterboard was painted. It was a B&O car. Whatever glue was used doesn’t mar the finish when you remove all the other boards. Any residue could be removed with non marking tools. 

If you started with a NP, CBQ or NYC car, you’d just need to goof off the lettering and go. 

Boilermaker,

  What is your source for decals? 

Thanks

Scott

Yes the GGD Amtrak cars are expensive and hard to find. I have the Slumbercoach and the Super dome. 

I also purchased used the Sunset Models RDC II thanks to forumite Marty F and Dotty.

Finally I have the Amtrak Ex ATSF El Capitan set from the second run.

If this set were any barometer of GGD Amtrak production, Only 8-9 complete sets were made on the first run and 6-7 sets were made on the second run.

For some reason- I take it the GGD customer demographic is not interested in Amtrak.

Unfortunately- I was not aware of the GGD Sleepers [4-4-2 & 10-6]. I guess I will have to keep an Eye out for them.

Interesting.... the shelves that El Cap is sitting on look remarkably similar to the ones in my basement... right down to the color on the wall and the bright light from my fish tank.

Scott, the decals are Microscale. I had to print the car number and "sleeper" myself. This particular car ran for a while without a name board below the windows. I'll probably add it back on eventually, but its correct as is for the early to mid-80s.

Great postings on the Golden Gate Depot Amtrak Heritage cars.  I wish that GGD would produce more of the metal Amtrak Heritage cars.  I have now a total of 4 GGD passenger cars, two coaches and one 4-4-2 sleeper as well as one Great Northern 4-4-2 sleeper.  All of these I had to scrounge for as by the time I figure out that these even existed, they were sold out.   There is a market for these out there but unfortunately very few people even know that GGD is even exists.   It would be great if they would come out as VistaDomeScott has mentioned more Amtrak Heritage cars.  I for sure would be in line for more to complete a train.  Does anybody know why Golden Gate Depot has produced so few Amtrak Heritage cars?  They seem to be highly sought after and few to exist.   I know that they are offering the Amfleet cars and I am planning to get one or two of those.   A Silver Meteor in Amtrak would be awesome also.

Sure hope GGD reads these posts. 

MountainRail posted:

Great postings on the Golden Gate Depot Amtrak Heritage cars.  I wish that GGD would produce more of the metal Amtrak Heritage cars.  I have now a total of 4 GGD passenger cars, two coaches and one 4-4-2 sleeper as well as one Great Northern 4-4-2 sleeper.  All of these I had to scrounge for as by the time I figure out that these even existed, they were sold out.   There is a market for these out there but unfortunately very few people even know that GGD is even exists.   It would be great if they would come out as VistaDomeScott has mentioned more Amtrak Heritage cars.  I for sure would be in line for more to complete a train.  Does anybody know why Golden Gate Depot has produced so few Amtrak Heritage cars?  They seem to be highly sought after and few to exist.   I know that they are offering the Amfleet cars and I am planning to get one or two of those.   A Silver Meteor in Amtrak would be awesome also.

Sure hope GGD reads these posts. 

 

I work on contract for 3rd Rail / Sunset / GGD and am a very avid Amtrak Fan.  As mentioned above, Amtrak is a hard sell for us and we don't know why.  The Amfleet project is not dead, but in trouble.  In the past the cars that were made were in low numbers.  Amtrak has often been added to simply fill out the final numbers for a minimum run car or set project. 

In short, we'd love to do more Amtrak cars and locomotives, but the reality is the orders don't come in.  Scott and I have the discussion several times a year of "why doesn't Amtrak sell?" 

The PS cars of 2012 were a run of 40 cars total in the sleepers and 40 total in the coach.  20 3r and 20 2r.  The Amfleet cars have been well publicized on this forum, in various print adds and on the website.  The E8 only went forward in Amtrak because a private investor guaranteed the run.  When the FL9 was done, it was less than 5% of the total production run of around 750 if I recall.  I think around 20 units.   

I have been assisting in reviewing the first draft Silver Meteor cars this week and I too would love a set in Amtrak.  However at this point, the factory is not as flexible as they used to be with very small runs due to rising costs for every component that goes into manufacturing these cars.   

My best guess it that there is a large crowd of modelers who are okay with "good enough" with other manufacturer's offerings.  Not a judgement at all.  Since Amtrak was such a hodgepodge fleet of cars my thought is that the need for exacting accuracy may not be as great.  There are few of us purists, but not enough at this price point.  Just my opinion.

How about Amtrak in the latest paint scheme and newest equipment ? Single level and superliner.

The Amfleet cars are being promoted,  yes.  Unlike the stealthy Heritage sleepers & coaches, Bi-level cars which really seemed to be afterthought add on to production vs  promoted products. Flexible factory was in effect for the last minute high level and full dome in Amtrak recently, too bad that just changed. 

The plastic seems the reason for the weak interest in the Amfleet cars from some of the people I have talked to.

 Heritage Amtrak cars requires no new tooling, in fact, maximizes use of production cars with selling some extra Amtrak painted versions.  If 50 to 100 more various cars were offered and advertised, and properly displayed on dealer websites, I am convinced  they will sell.  

Personally I like the Horizon cars better. The Amfleet, only my opion are ugly, look like an old airplane on train wheels that show to much wheel. Only reason I want them is that what Amtrak runs on their single level long distance trains today. I didn't buy the GGD bilevel Amtrak because I wanted the more modern Amtrak Super Liner. I found a set of K-Line that I am Happy with. Just thinking maybe more people want the current Amtrak ? Seemed to like the VIb option in the Amfleet.         just my humble opion      

Clem 

Sure hope I have all my terminology correct  

Great replies everybody on the GGD Amtrak Heritage and Amfleet Cars.   I am surprised at the low numbers produced but then I am not surprised because of the way that they are marketed.  Many people have never seen a GGD car, let alone an Amtrak one.  Put one on E-bay and watch it sell and sell very fast. The difficulty that GGD is having is getting orders for an unseen item!.   You have to admit that there is ZERO in stock anywhere and anytime one appears on e-bay it is gone in minutes or it gets bid up sky high.  As VistaDomeScott says, producing additional heritage cars would not require new tooling.  Maybe that is a wrong assumption and it is easy to armchair talk about how easy it is to do something when we really do not have much of an idea of what it really takes.  But with that said, I am willing to say just the same as he has.  Why not have a 3rd run but, this time do one thing different as I suggest below.  Maybe one of  you can enlighten us a bit on what it takes to produce a model that has already been produced before.  What would it take to do a third run using the same tooling and paint masks?   Having this kind of knowledge is always good and we can better understand how GGD works as well as other train importers and manufacturers.     

Jonathan,  thank you for educating us on some of the numbers that GGD was dealing with when producing the 2012 Amtrak run.   With those low numbers, I totally understand why GGD is shy in producing more Amtrak cars.  You mentioned that a total of 20 coaches and 20 sleepers where made in the second run in 3 rail and same in two rail.   I imagine that these numbers were generated by preorders only.   My belief is that if you manufactured and additional amount so that you had "available stock in hand" for immediate sale, that you would sell these very fast.  Human nature is such that buying something that is available TODAY, is what makes you take that jump, especially on something that is of a higher value.   This is why car dealerships have cars available for immediate sale on the lot and Jewelry stores are stocked full with diamonds and gold jewelry that is available for immediate sale.

You mention that Scott and you have had the discussion on why Amtrak does not sell.  One of them is that a good percentage of your "current buyers" are of a generation that despises Amtrak.  Remember Amtrak came in and did away with all that had to do with "The Golden Age of Passenger Trains"  so some of your buyers are buying the trains of their childhood and the sight of Amtrak is like the sight of the demon that took away their loved trains.  However for some of us Amtrak is the train of our childhood and yes we are less in numbers.   The other is the following!. 

 Imagine if you went to buy a automobile and all you had was a green or peach flyer with one or two not so good pictures of the auto?   Your auto sales would not be anywhere as good as they actually are when you have the autos on the showroom floor.

 Now, if you were to stock those beautiful GGD coaches and sleepers on your website for immediate sale with good pictures to show what you are selling / purchasing, they would sell quickly.  Jonathan, do you know of anybody that has a few GGD Amtrak sleepers or Amtrak slumber coaches for sale?   Because if you do, please let me know as I am interested.   I can say this because I am familiar with the product. But before I had ever seen a GGD heritage passenger car, I was very skeptical.   Many people are not at all familiar and have no idea how nice these cars are. 

I do want to say that I am not in any way slamming  GGD or Scott Mann.  I thank him and all involved for making these beautiful cars available to us and I am extremely grateful to them for it.

I look forward to many more Amtrak offerings from Golden Gate Depot.  Definitely a First Class Product.  Thanks to all at GGD for a job well done.

Another problem with selling Amtrak cars in my opinion is that there aren't many quality engines to pull them.  I usually buy an engine and then look for appropriate cars or vice versa.  A K-Line  Amtrak FP-40 is the only Amtrak diesel that I own.  

Most of the other Amtrak diesels that I have seen from the major manufacturers just don't look right to me.  I am sure that there are scale diesels out there but I have't seen them.  I have seen some excellent Amtrak electrics.  

Perhaps GGD would sell more cars if a scale era appropriate diesel was offered at the same time to pull the cars.  

NH Joe

You can buy Scale E8, F7, FL9, F40PH, Dash 8-32BWH, and Genesis diesels. 

GG1s and AEM-7s are available in scale as well. 

Except for the few of us who'd love SDP40Fs and the even fewer who want a P30CH, the motive power is pretty good and well covered. Is there room for improvement in some tooling? Sure, but the models are out there. 

Plenty of nice E8's, F40PH, out there for the earlier Amtrak era cars.

I agree plenty of Amtrak power out there.

Clem

However I wonder if another run of MTH Blue and Grey genesis might be needed ?

MountainRail posted:

 

Jonathan,  thank you for educating us on some of the numbers that GGD was dealing with when producing the 2012 Amtrak run.   With those low numbers, I totally understand why GGD is shy in producing more Amtrak cars.  You mentioned that a total of 20 coaches and 20 sleepers where made in the second run in 3 rail and same in two rail.   I imagine that these numbers were generated by preorders only.   

Those numbers were simply the minimum the factory was willing to do to offer the cars at that time.  These cars were in inventory for a little while. 

My belief is that if you manufactured and additional amount so that you had "available stock in hand" for immediate sale, that you would sell these very fast.  Human nature is such that buying something that is available TODAY, is what makes you take that jump, especially on something that is of a higher value.   This is why car dealerships have cars available for immediate sale on the lot and Jewelry stores are stocked full with diamonds and gold jewelry that is available for immediate sale.

Unfortunately having stock on hand is not desirable from a manufacturer's perspective.  The profit margin in this industry is so low that storing them in a warehouse takes any potential profit out of extra stock.  That is why you see "blowout" pricing from some other manufacturers from time to time.  It's just more costly to store the trains.  From a business perspective why would you want to make a product and sell it for less than it cost you?  O scale is a tough nut to crack and it's getting harder as prices keep going up for labor and materials.

You mention that Scott and you have had the discussion on why Amtrak does not sell.  One of them is that a good percentage of your "current buyers" are of a generation that despises Amtrak.  Remember Amtrak came in and did away with all that had to do with "The Golden Age of Passenger Trains"  so some of your buyers are buying the trains of their childhood and the sight of Amtrak is like the sight of the demon that took away their loved trains.  However for some of us Amtrak is the train of our childhood and yes we are less in numbers.   The other is the following!. 

I don't disagree at all.  I grew up riding Amtrak like many.  The only long distance train I rode that wasn't Amtrak was the Crescent prior to Southern turning it over to Amtrak in the late 70's.  I still ride Amtrak whenever the opportunity arises.  However, at the price point of GGD most of the buyers are going to be in or close to the retirement demographic where they have extra disposable income.  

 Jonathan, do you know of anybody that has a few GGD Amtrak sleepers or Amtrak slumber coaches for sale?   Because if you do, please let me know as I am interested.   I can say this because I am familiar with the product. But before I had ever seen a GGD heritage passenger car, I was very skeptical.   Many people are not at all familiar and have no idea how nice these cars are. 

The PS sleepers show up on Ebay from time to time.  The overal production run for Slumbercoaches was fairly low and I don't know the numbers.  As I recall it was a quick "burn" project to provide the numbers needs to produce another train set.  I have four extra PS coaches that I'll probably list on the buy-sell board once I can dig the box out of the train room.

I do want to say that I am not in any way slamming  GGD or Scott Mann.  I thank him and all involved for making these beautiful cars available to us and I am extremely grateful to them for it.

I look forward to many more Amtrak offerings from Golden Gate Depot.  Definitely a First Class Product.  Thanks to all at GGD for a job well done.

Everyone involved tries their best to make the best product possible all the time.  For such a small company, GGD does a lot of big things.

Speaking of Amtrak power....

I would love to get the Amtrak Amfleet cars available for preorder currently, as I am growing up in the era of Amtrak being around for long distance train travel, and traveling on Amtrak is on my Bucket List, but I am unable to purchase the price point they are being sold at with supporting a family and going to college to get my bachelors degree. I do wish I could get it though, but my wife would more than likely kill me if I did get it.

tcochran posted:

I would love to get the Amtrak Amfleet cars available for preorder currently, as I am growing up in the era of Amtrak being around for long distance train travel, and traveling on Amtrak is on my Bucket List, but I am unable to purchase the price point they are being sold at with supporting a family and going to college to get my bachelors degree. I do wish I could get it though, but my wife would more than likely kill me if I did get it.

Yes.  Death is a serious deterrent to purchasing these cars!  My approach over the years been pre-order it knowing it will be a while before it ships and figure out how to pay for it later, or even better save the money slowly.  Even if design started today, this is probably a year out from delivery.

However, I fully understand the challenges you face.  I was in HO during those years and Bachmann HO Amfleet cars were $5-$10 at swap meets. 

Speaking of things that would require no new tooling or minimal modifications-I'd be in for a Budd Great Dome in Phase III. Ocean View (#10031) as all of us Amtrak fans know is Amtrak's only dome car left in service and in February became the final remaining heritage car that makes money for Amtrak. The only other cars are either for axle count reasons or for company service. The Phase III version differs only very slightly from the Phase I version GGD made. It has roller bearing caps exposed on the trucks, no vestibule door, HEP and MU/trainline receptacles with wires, and marker lights on both ends. Only real modification is to the trucks. I'd also be in for a Pacific Parlour Car in Phase VI. These cars differ from the Hi-Level Lounges sort of in the same way Ocean View does, except the cars retained their doors and the diaphragms were changed to match the Superliner fleet. There's also some very minor external differences, but most don't notice.

Both car types have more than one version. The Pacific Parlour Cars appeared in Phase III, Phase IV, and Phase VI. There were 5 of them and thus 5 different names and road numbers (39970 and 39972-39975). The Budd Great Dome has appeared in Phase I, Phase III, Phase IV, Phase VI, and Phase III again. That's just #10031 alone. Another car, #10030 Mountain View served in Phase IV until its retirement in the early 2000s.

VistaDomeScott posted:

Video of a consist mixed with Atlas, GGD, K-Line, Lionel, lead bu MTH E8 locomotives 

That's an awesome consist.

Almost done, just needs markers on the ends...

Boilermaker1 posted:

Almost done, just needs markers on the ends...

That looks awesome! It's interesting how that car doesn't appear to have been named like the other cars such as the Loch series.

GenesisFan99 posted:

Speaking of things that would require no new tooling or minimal modifications-I'd be in for a Budd Great Dome in Phase III. Ocean View (#10031) as all of us Amtrak fans know is Amtrak's only dome car left in service and in February became the final remaining heritage car that makes money for Amtrak. The only other cars are either for axle count reasons or for company service. The Phase III version differs only very slightly from the Phase I version GGD made. It has roller bearing caps exposed on the trucks, no vestibule door, HEP and MU/trainline receptacles with wires, and marker lights on both ends. Only real modification is to the trucks. I'd also be in for a Pacific Parlour Car in Phase VI. These cars differ from the Hi-Level Lounges sort of in the same way Ocean View does, except the cars retained their doors and the diaphragms were changed to match the Superliner fleet. There's also some very minor external differences, but most don't notice.

Both car types have more than one version. The Pacific Parlour Cars appeared in Phase III, Phase IV, and Phase VI. There were 5 of them and thus 5 different names and road numbers (39970 and 39972-39975). The Budd Great Dome has appeared in Phase I, Phase III, Phase IV, Phase VI, and Phase III again. That's just #10031 alone. Another car, #10030 Mountain View served in Phase IV until its retirement in the early 2000s.

VistaDomeScott posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

On a separate, but unrelated note, I recently added three Atlas sleepers and am seriously considering the Lionel coach and baggage car if the price is right just to experiment with how the go with the Atlas as well as my GGD and K-Line Amtrak cars.  The observation and dome car are not to my personal liking and I don't have any interest in a diner with sound.   

I bought the 2 pack by Lionel and painted the trucks black.  Also mixing Atlas, Lionel, K-line here with GGD.

The station sounds diner is quite the gimmick isnt it.  Want food service, pay for unwanted expensive sound 

Agreed! There is something incorrect about the dome and ex NYC obs. The diner with it's "Meteor" Announcements is not to my tastes either. Lionel should have stuck with generic diner sounds so one could use the car on any Amtrak and/or rainbow consist.

MountainRail posted:

You mention that Scott and you have had the discussion on why Amtrak does not sell.  One of them is that a good percentage of your "current buyers" are of a generation that despises Amtrak.  Remember Amtrak came in and did away with all that had to do with "The Golden Age of Passenger Trains"  so some of your buyers are buying the trains of their childhood and the sight of Amtrak is like the sight of the demon that took away their loved trains.

You accurately described me.  When I see Amtrak "Heritage" cars, I remember how Amtrak took fine, well-maintained cars from western railroads and SCL, and painted the vestibules bright red and carpeted the walls.  It was just business, but it still stings.  Really, they had to bring the level of service and equipment down to something more commonplace, as times were changing . . . Holiday Inn was becoming the accepted level of hotels and Denny's was proliferating.

However, My contempt does not go so far as to want others to despise Amtrak.  So my hat is off to those who posted photos and videos of their Amtrak Heritage trains and cars.  There's some really good model railroading in this thread, that deserves recognition.  And this is a hobby, so you should run the trains you like, and, thanks to Scott Mann's business model, you can.  I'll stay with the Santa Fe and we'll all run the trains we like.

In spite of my heartburn over its perceived sins of the 70's, I am an Amtrak customer.  My wife and I use it at least once yearly.  We just keep a sense of humor about Amtrak's peculiarities and enjoy riding the train.  And I rarely use my pass, normally paying full fare.

I wish I could afford a Phase III Auto Train.... that would be something to see. MTH made the P40s and Auto carriers, and the rest is GGD/K-Line/kitbash.

Sorry to rehash this old thread, but I have a relevant question to the subject and there's no point in starting a new discussion when one already exists.

Does anyone know if Golden Gate Depot ever made an Amtrak Heritage observation car? I have been searching and have not found a reference to one being made. The Phase III paint scheme is preferable to potentially match the Lionel 21" Amtrak Phase III set from two years ago. I know Altas O made one in Phase I years ago but I haven't even seen one of those lately. I also know K-Line did a Phase I too, but it's too shiny to match.

@mountain482 posted:

Sorry to rehash this old thread, but I have a relevant question to the subject and there's no point in starting a new discussion when one already exists.

Does anyone know if Golden Gate Depot ever made an Amtrak Heritage observation car? I have been searching and have not found a reference to one being made. The Phase III paint scheme is preferable to potentially match the Lionel 21" Amtrak Phase III set from two years ago. I know Altas O made one in Phase I years ago but I haven't even seen one of those lately. I also know K-Line did a Phase I too, but it's too shiny to match.

There has not been an Amtrak Phase III observation car offered by GGD.   The main reason is that observation cars largely left Amtrak by the mid 1970's, and none were rebuilt into the Phase III HEP fleet of cars.  All Amtrak observations only received Phase I paint.

Way back around 2014 I did some work on behalf of GGD to create painting diagrams for what was then billed as "finish sets".  In reality they were B&O Cincinnatian cars in various paint schemes that completed the sets started with the PS coaches and PS 4-4-2 / 10-6 sleepers.  As near as I can tell, these were never actually put into production.  I didn't have the means to order one originally and I have never seen a production version of this car.  I still have the artwork though.

On a separate topic, as an Amtrak modeler there are still some key cars I'd love to see some day, but the orders for these cars has not been forthcoming to move them into production.  I'd love a Heritage lounge, baggage, baggage-dorm, diner, coaches, and 10-6 sleepers.  Those of us interested just need to find enough other people interested to get these tagged onto future projects. 

Thanks for the information, Jonathan. That explains why I haven't found a picture of an Amtrak observation in Phase III. I just figured any photos probably hadn't been published on the Internet or had disappeared over time. I'm new to pursuing Amtrak equipment and had not done much research yet, so that info helps a lot.

I like your drawing for the observation car that never was from GGD. Looks like I will have to pursue an Atlas O 3-Rail version from years ago unless a GGD version gets announced at some point.

When is the next Batch of Golden Gate Depot Heritage Amtrak Phase 3 Dome cars, dining cars, baggage cars, 10-6 sleepers, and coaches ?  We are Hungry for More AMTRAK Heritage cars.   And have we forgotten the  SDP 40s?   I missed out on the now cancelled Amtrak cars that were part of the Southern order.  I would have ordered if I knew they  were there.