MTH 2/3 Rail Convertible FT's - NOT CONVERTIBLE

The dcs/dcc switch is on the bottom of the frame right in front of the fuel tank.

I believe the various switches are now located in the rear door areas of the latest MTH "F" type units.

Catalog says Kadee pads but they dont have those either. 

OK Guys, not a dummy here, I have found the dcs/dcc switch and the rear door switches but no 2 rail switch.  There can't be as the trucks blocks are SOLID and the wheels can't be removed for the conversion kits that have the scale wheels.  Even with a wheel puller, the wheels are not set up for right/left insulation like on other 2/3 MTH units I have converted.

Thanks for your responses though.

J2M

True, no Kadee pads either.  I wonder if MTH will take these back.  Serious misrepresentation/error.

I just got my 3 rail set and they act weird. When I power the track, there is no watch dog "click" and the engines start up without command. I was able to add them to DCS, build the lashup, and run them just fine. If I cycle the power though, they start up again without a command. 

I was disapointed not seeing the Kadee pads for sure. Never bothered to really look at the truck blocks. Even the manual says 3/2 on the cover, but I know it's probably just a generic reprint.

WOW..... Thanks for posting this .

j2morris posted:

OK Guys, not a dummy here, I have found the dcs/dcc switch and the rear door switches but no 2 rail switch.  

If I'm not mistaken, the DCS/DCC switch IS the "2-Rail" switch. Have you checked your owner manual?

There can't be as the trucks blocks are SOLID and the wheels can't be removed for the conversion kits that have the scale wheels.

Check and see if there are any deeply countersunk screws that hold the cover-plate on the 2-axle truck. Removal of the screws, allows the cover plate to be removed, and subsequent change-out of the wheel pairs. Just be sure that you install all the insulated wheels sides on the same side.

 Even with a wheel puller, the wheels are not set up for right/left insulation like on other 2/3 MTH units I have converted.

Thanks for your responses though.

 

J2M

Now, after all this, it just dawned on me; why didn't you purchase 2-Rail models in the first place? Why are you trying to "convert" 3-Rail models to 2-Rail?

Hi Hot Water,

Yup, I have checked the  manual and the DCS/DCC is NOT the 2 rail switch. There is no cover plate on the truck block.  They are SOLID.

These were not offered with scale wheels, no chance to order the 2 rail version - not offered.  Just cataloged as 2/3 convertible with said conversion kit.  See your MTH catalog.  Quite a few diesels offered only 3 rail but convertible (not in this case).

Ok so heres a dumb question then. 

Why a DCS/DCC switch if they are 3 rail models?

Because PS3 is DCC compatible. 

I get that part, but on a 3 rail model that's not convertible????

Sounds like a manufacturing error to me - and MTH is probably ready to make it good.  Does anybody know if the F-3/F-7 and GP models now have convertible truck blocks?  If so, that is the one MTH should have used - and maybe the factory found a stash of older ones to use up?

My FT's are old style, but my F7's are proto 3 with the 3/2 swappable trucks.

Laidoffsick posted:

Ok so heres a dumb question then. 

Why a DCS/DCC switch if they are 3 rail models?

Well there are two or three guys that run 3 rail DCC. Although, I agree, very seldom used in a 3 rail environment the locomotive has that feature it should be accessible in case someone wants to use it. 

What I think happened here is a misprint in the catalog. Certainly isn't the first time the catalog was wrong. Please keep us posted on the outcome. 

Hi Phil,

Not just the catalog but even the box the FT came in lists it as 2/3 convertible.  I'll keep you posted. 

J2M

Now I am sure it was a factory "error".  I bet MTH fixes it with new truck blocks for you.  They ought to be easy to replace.

The factory was "cheaping out" with old parts.

J2M, wow the box says it too. I sincerely hope Bob is correct that the factory used old parts and that MTH will make good on it and send you the correct trucks. MTH will probably want you to send the incorrect trucks back to them. Good luck.

I wonder if it's more than just trucks that has to be changed ?

Clem 

bob2 posted:

Now I am sure it was a factory "error".  I bet MTH fixes it with new truck blocks for you.  They ought to be easy to replace.

The factory was "cheaping out" with old parts.

Not necessarily. The 3/2 system requires additional wiring for power pickup and re-routing when going from 2-rail to 3-rail. That would have to be added to the unit if it isn't already there.

Good point Matt but bad news for J2Morris. I don't see how MTH is going to make this right. I doubt they are going to rewire the locomotive. Sending out a set of trucks is easy but rewiring or adding wiring to a locomotive is a lot more work. Looks like I was correct after all. Catalog error/misprint.

Perhaps what happened was, and I am just speculating here, when the incorrect description was made for this locomotive for the catalog that same file was sent to the people who print up the labels for the boxes and thus the error was repeated? Just guessing as I don't know MTH polices or procedures.

If you have the correct trucks with the insulated wheels, adding the 2-rail/3-rail switch is not that difficult.  It'll take a bit of work, but it's not rocket science.  I've installed PS/2 into a number of 2-rail locomotives and wired for 2-rail operation.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you have the correct trucks with the insulated wheels, adding the 2-rail/3-rail switch is not that difficult.  It'll take a bit of work, but it's not rocket science.  I've installed PS/2 into a number of 2-rail locomotives and wired for 2-rail operation.

Agreed. A few years ago I posted this schematic for converting 2-rail locomotives to "go both ways". It's simplest and works best with "all wheel pickup" locomotives, but still works with locomotives that pick up from only one side of each truck (or with steam).

I'm becoming more dissatisfied with MTH. Big dollar items you have to wait for over a year for them to arrive. They're either protoypically wrong or require your time to fix them, but MTH H.O. models are near perfect out of the box. Go figure.......... 

Here you go.  Read the part about "breach of express warranty" carefully.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-ency...book/chapter2-7.html

MTH has no doubt discovered that the real profit is in the larger market.  I am almost 100% sure this error was not deliberate on MTH's part.

Hi Matt,

I have also converted some 3 rail to 2 rail so the wiring is pretty easy. I agree with your drawing.  No need for a switch however as it will never run on 3 rail.  I will just use the center rail lead to one side and the "common" wheel lead to the other side of the truck pick-up. Might have to do the opposite on the other truck depending on which side is the insulated one.  The real issue is whether the newer EMD F Unit truck will fit on the FT drive. I will ask MTH next time they are open.  I don't expect to have a problem on wiring.  For the B unit, I will just use my wheel puller and put in 2 rail wheels without drive gears.  Hopefully the new type truck fits the FT otherwise to quote the "king" it is "return to sender".  If they don't fit it would explain why the factory decided not to use them and figured (correctly) that most purchasers would not care.

J2M

The way I read the catalog is the 2/3 is only available on locos that are offered with scale wheels. Since the FT's are cataloged as high rail wheels only I think you're out of luck with regards to MTH doing anything about it.

Mr Jones

That would be odd as I have purchased other MTH loco's that were not offered with scale wheels that were "2/3 convertible" and converted them to 2 rail as per their conversion kits.  So you are not reading it correctly. 

Hey Doug,

If MTH will just send you the wheels with axles, I assume you're gonna run them on your railroad, you're good. If not send em back if you can. Otherwise, get NWSL, but you already know all of this. My bad buddy.

Ron

I could be wrong, but didn't MTH stop producing Proto-Scale 3-2 power trucks?

Keith

Ron,

I will try to get the 3-2 truck block if possible.  The current solid truck block would be a pain to convert (but possible). 

Keith,

They are still advertising  the 3/2 power trucks and I have received them on an Also RS-1 less than 2  months ago.  Please let's not start rumors.

J2M 

j2morris posted:

They are still advertising  the 3/2 power trucks and I have received them on an Also RS-1 less than 2  months ago.  Please let's not start rumors.

J2M 

Quite right J2M. I bought a GP9 that was not available with Scale Wheels and it had the 3/2 trucks on it and was easily converted to 2 rail. Although it was a lot of work to put Kadees on it. It's certainly a process that there's no going back to the Lionel type coupler but the fact remains that MTH still offers the 3/2 option on locomotives where a Scale Wheel version is not available.

j2morris posted:

Ron,

I will try to get the 3-2 truck block if possible.  The current solid truck block would be a pain to convert (but possible). 

Keith,

They are still advertising  the 3/2 power trucks and I have received them on an Also RS-1 less than 2  months ago.  Please let's not start rumors.

J2M 

Sorry, I was vaguely remembering this thread, https://ogrforum.com/t...o-3-2-patent-lapsed, but it was only about the fact that MTH had allowed the Proto-Scale 3-2 patent to lapse, not that MTH had stopped producing Proto-Scale 3-2 trucks. My bad.

Keith

I feel for you J2M. I bought a PRR T1 years back which was listed in the catalog and on the website as Proto 3/2, but when I got it that wasn't the case. Sounds to me like the factory used the wrong build plan. I thought MTH was QA'ing these products when they arrived in the US? Maybe not?

J2M,

I am sorry that your MTH locomotive did not meet your expectations but I am confident in MTH’s quality control. I reserved a scale-wheel, Premier, GE Evolution Hybrid from the 2015 Volume 2 catalog, last year, but when MTH didn’t update the most recent delivery date beyond July 2016, I contacted their customer service & was informed that while testing out all the GE Evolution models (scale-wheel & hi-rail versions), MTH discovered that the gears on 1 of the axles on 1 of the 2 trucks was incorrectly assembled & they halted shipments until they could get replacement parts made to rework all the models, state-side. According to the MTH customer service rep, even though most hobbyists might not discover this fault, if someone attempted to pull a very heavy train, the locomotive could slip & they wanted to get all fixed before they were shipped out. They had reworked & shipped the hi-rail models when I called & they were waiting for more parts to fix the scale-wheel versions.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

As you probably know, it is possible to convert the MTH solid diesel trucks to 2 rail with NWSL wheels machined to fit the MTH axles.  I have done this many times.  MTH should make this situation right for you but if your heart is set on a pair of their FT units it can be acccomplished without their assistance.

Joe Foehrkolb

What if it wasn't the wrong build plan but an incorrect time description from the inception of the loco. I have alco PA's that say they 3/2 convertible trucks but they definitely are not. And I do believe that my 3 rail F7's are labeled with the same 3/2 convertible tucks label but those are not as well. Its a mistake somewhere.

You know this is now getting scary. I am now starting to feel very apprehensive about ordering any MTH 3/2 diesels (Hi-Rail version) in the future. I thought this was just an isolated incident but after reading what Matt wrote it appears to be much more commonplace. 

It is one thing if you are a 3 rail guy and you really don't need the option of running on 2 rail track or maybe you have one friend who is 2 rail and now you can't run your new locomotive on his layout so you're not that disappointed but if you are like me or J2M and you really need that ability to run 2 rail and the catalog said the locomotive would be able to and it doesn't then you are really in a pickle. 

I really like MTH but they have to be more accurate in their catalog descriptions and if they change something or find out the factory changed something please let the customer know. 

Yes, Joe stated that the regular 3 rail trucks can be converted but who wants to spend time and money converting something that you shouldn't have had to convert in the first place?