MTH 44-Ton Locomotive Query

FWIW...I have two of these and they do the same thing...cut the power...they essentially go dead...silent.  Seem to work properly with DCSl.

Also...FWIW...mine seem to be good pullers...able to move 20 scale cars easily.

When you say "cut the track power", are you reducing the voltage to zero, or just slowing until the loco stops moving? In conventional mode, does hitting the direction button to cycle through f-n-r also cause the loco to go dead? Have you tried it in DCC mode rather than DCS?

Supposedly, this is the same board that will be in the coming(?) S gauge F-3 units, so they will likely have similar problems if there are issues with the DCS.

Bill in FtL

Maybe the capacitors are smaller than a "normal" PS3 board?

Rusty

When I "cut power", I mean exactly that.  I turn off the track power.  I'd expect a normal PS/3 locomotive to go through the full shutdown sequence before the audio cuts off, and all the others I have do so.

I'm able to run them conventional if I don't dally on the direction button.  The biggest issue I have is even a small power interruption in command mode and they go dead and then start up in conventional mode.  This is quite annoying!

These scream for dual rollers, they should have changed the lower end to allow space for them.

John,

It is a different board completely.  If it works correctly when the power is on and keeps its address, why do you think it is malfunctioning?

Dave

Dave, when you run conventional, every other PS2 or PS/3 locomotive does a full shutdown when you kill power.  This one cuts the shutdown sequence after about one second.  Also, any small glitch in the power in command mode causes it to go dead on the tracks, then it starts up in conventional mode.  That may be OK with you, but it's not all that satisfactory to me.

I know it's a different board, that doesn't mean they had to screw it up!

John,

The shut down sequence/time is no big deal.  It might be a limitation of that board being so small.  I do not think it is an issue with the super caps but rather a limitation of the board itself.

Mine, and the substantial amount that have gone through my shop, are fine.  There are some issues on certain switches with the loss of power.  I have documented this pretty well in my review and suggested some solutions to try.  Problems like this with smaller engines are not uncommon.  On this engine in particular, it seems to be insufficient ground on certain switches, especially when using a non-derailing feature which gives even less outside rail contact.  

I assure you that mine does not stall on any layout or any switch.  I would be happy to help you with yours.

Respectfully,

Dave

Dave, I'm not planning on switching to Kadee couplers, so your solution probably won't solve my problem.  I'm actually considering the possibility of adding a slider for an extra pickup, I don't see any easy way to add a roller and keep the couplers.

I did like the idea of replacing one set of traction tires with metal wheels, but the lack of the tools to make that happen precludes that for me.  When the parts get into the pipeline, I might buy the non-powered wheelset and replace one set of powered wheels.

John,

It is an issue with the ground, not so much the pickup spacing.  This is also the reason that it wasn't offered in 2 rail.  The non drive axle was needed 100% for the outside rail connection.  I found that my non drive axle would lift ever so slightly or move too far to one side and loose ground.

I didn't check around to see if there is a tubing size out there that could be used to make metal tires.  This engine doesn't need rubber tires.  The lip that holds the tire on can easily be removed by hand.  I'll measure the tires I made and post the dimensions.

Dave

Same experience here. Not really an issue but just something I noticed. I also note that it starts up nearly immediately vs the typical 20 second PS3 wait in Conventional. Overall I'm very happy with mine. No issues on 0-31 switches (except operator caused issues!). I also ran it on the Tracker layout last weekend on Fastrak and Ross switches and crossovers. Ran flawlessly. My friends in the N-Scale/T-Trak club down the hall really liked seeing it pull a short train of the MTH 64' Premier 19th Century wood cars. 

GRJ, THE word is that the supercaps are smaller than the O-Guage board.  The 5-7 second rule doesn't apply.   Not having opened mine up, I can't figure why one of those Digikey supercaps couldn't be fit somewhere.  I do think the trucks need more play to pivot up and down in the fore&aft plane.

 As long as we   can change the setting & ID and have them stick, it'\s Ok with me... We just got one and I hadn't noticed the shut down sequence. It saw the watch dog and added with no problems.   I like the engine. It 's so slow .  Time to  examine it more closely next week over at Jacks. (later)

David Minarik posted:

It is an issue with the ground, not so much the pickup spacing.  This is also the reason that it wasn't offered in 2 rail.  The non drive axle was needed 100% for the outside rail connection.  I found that my non drive axle would lift ever so slightly or move too far to one side and loose ground.

Dave, that may be the issue, it was going over a section of a temporary floor track and stopped nowhere near a switch, however there was a slight bump at a track joint.  Since at least one roller should have been in contact, it could well be the issue was that it lost contact with the outside tracks.  This is Fastrack, so it has four chances to make a connection, one would think it wouldn't have a problem.

David Minarik posted:

I didn't check around to see if there is a tubing size out there that could be used to make metal tires.  This engine doesn't need rubber tires.  The lip that holds the tire on can easily be removed by hand.  I'll measure the tires I made and post the dimensions.

I think successfully fixing the wheels is a long shot for most of us.  If I had a replacement wheel, I could press that on, but trying to remove the side of the tire groove is going to be pretty tricky without a lathe.  Since that's not a tool or a skill that I possess, I'm stuck with more "canned" solution.

One one point we can agree, I think this should have been made without traction tires.  It's heavy enough to do switching duties without traction tires, and I really wouldn't care if it can't pull a dozen cars up a grade, that's not what it's supposed to be used for.

I find I have issues with PS3/2 steam engines loosing ground on the larger # turnouts, so I can see that happening with the 44 toner easily.

Clem k

Yep, I don't think MTH spent much time with the running characteristics of this unit.  Running slowly, it occasionally dies on an O72 Fastrack switch, so I'm sure it's probably got issues with other brands of track and switches.  The more troubling aspect is it dying on the track other than on a switch when it hit a small irregularity in the height.  It's the first engine to do that, and it happened in several places.

John,

Another solution might be to let the non drive axle float a little more up and down???  

Clem,

I have had issues with some steam engines loosing ground as well.  

Dave

Dave and John...........What if the non powered axle had oval holes in the truck with small springs to keep the axle down on the track.

Clem

Clem, I think doing that mod is WAY out of my wheelhouse, can I do it with electronics?

Wow I hate to say it but I'm glad I didn't order one.  

So far I like Daves fix the best, if you could get the dead axle and wheel assembly from MTH then its a simple matter of switching out the drive wheels.

My does what you describe when turning off = cutting power. For normal turn-off it does the normal shut down it is supposed to do so I guess I don't see what the issue is. I agree that dual rollers would be better but even on my layout I only had problems because one roller surface was dinged up. Otherwise I find it well worth the wait. No layout that does switching operations should be without one!

It's the first PS2 or PS3 locomotive I've seen that's "working normally", but can't complete it's shutdown sequence with power off.  Since there's nothing in the manual suggesting it has this issue, I assumed it was broken.

Maybe it's an inherent deficiency in the design. Something they had to sacrifice for the very small size. Recall that it took a heck of a long time to get that thing delivered.

The only thing I can think is they couldn't cram enough super capacitors in there to hold it up.

Remember, y'all, that this isn't the normal PS3.  It is an S-Gauge board, newly developed.  One really can't apply the same criteria and tests to it.

Sorry, that answer doesn't resonate with me.  If it's going to chop off the shutdown sequence, why bother to have one at all?

i have one to that stops immediately on any glitch in the track it is a pos cant even get the shell off maybe I will take the rubber tires off or convert it to err i hate this thing 

I never noticed the issue with the shutdown sequence, but then I only run mine with DCS.  Never had a problem with losing power on Ross or Gargraves switches.  Personally, I like the little guy.

Have you considered de-glitching the track.  The price for a tiny loco is less play in the trucks to facilitate going over glitches. 

I have the Williams 44-ton locomotive that I upgraded to TMCC with cruise & Railsounds.  It has none of the issues with track or switches that the same sized MTH has. 

FWIW Bob, I only run mine with DCS as well, but when it parks in a siding, i frequently just cut the power to the siding as I want it powered down anyway.  I have a fix I'm going to apply someday for the caps, and then I guess I'll have to try to get a pair of non-grooved wheels and replace one set to give it more continuity to the outer tracks.

every thing  else runs fine just this one going to be a pond ornament

I don’t expect any issues using DCS and manual GG switches. I’ll have to see what all the hoopla is about when the NY DOCK arrives someday.

I do know when MTH changed to the smaller rollers several years ago , the arms / rollers got stuck up in the pockets of my B&O GP-35 over switches.

I had to scrape away some plastic around the box allowing the arms & springs to work freely. Another MTH MEMORY blunder. I have quite a list.!

WW, try offering it for sale.

i have all older ps2 premier the ps3  is caca

This may not apply, for what it's worth.  Original TMCC control board had two large capacitors.   Limited space, I moved the caps. off the board to a different location under the hood of a Rich Yoder  GE 44 tonner.   Top center of picture.  Smaller caps on a control board. less time. IMO.  I could be wrong and often.    

The only caps that have any bearing on TMCC handling a power glitch would be the R2LC board caps.  Not sure what package you have in that engine, but those don't look like anything on the R2LC.

Where is the pop corn emoji?   Ones I worked on had same characteristic with abrupt conventional shutdown.  The board is special and has different supercap if I remember correctly.  Plus software can be used to control it too.  G

dont have to worry about it now it went by by

by the way how do you get the darn cab off