MTH & ATLAS Shared Tooling Announcement

Interesting. So basically we have MTH full product line again from two different companies. Makes me wonder if at some point in the future that MTH will try to reacquire their old tooling.

I just hope that 2 rail is not forgotten.

Looks like a favorable development for O gauge hobbyists. MTH and Atlas O both make quality products.

MELGAR

Seems strange that if Atlas makes it, and it goes with an MTH engine, it's branded MTH.  And the reverse, too - MTH manufactured pieces will be branded Atlas if they go with an Atlas engine.

Kinda leaves two tiers: MTH by MTH and MTH by Atlas, as well as Atlas by Atlas and Atlas by MTH.

Wonder if there will be some way to tell the difference...

Not too big a surprise given that both lines are being produced in the same factory. Something like this was probably already in-place for common components like trucks.

In line with this announcement, I could see for example, Premier passenger cars being produced to match specific MTH steam locomotives.

---PCJ

It’s not a coincidence that a second announcement soon followed this announcement  of a MTH special run of GS4 and 70’ streamlined passenger cars.  Those cars were on the list of tooling sold to Atlas in 2021.  MTH ended up after the sales to Lionel and ATLAS a bunch of tooling for steam engines with no matching passenger cars. Since ATLAS appears to have little interest in steam engines, they probably do not feel steam era passenger cars as competition,

I’m more interested in what ATLAS wants access to of MTH tooling that they didn’t already purchase.  One rumor I saw was track related tooling, but I can’t confirm as valid or speculation.

@Mike D posted:

Interesting. So basically we have MTH full product line again from two different companies. Makes me wonder if at some point in the future that MTH will try to reacquire their old tooling.

Minus the tooling Lionel acquired, kind of wished MTH held on to it.

@Mike D posted:

Interesting. So basically we have MTH full product line again from two different companies. Makes me wonder if at some point in the future that MTH will try to reacquire their old tooling.

I wonder if it's the inverse - a step towards Atlas acquiring the rest of MTH. (this is completely pure speculation, I have less than zero knowledge of the situation)

MTH gets matching cars for their steam runs, and Atlas gets to see how well or poorly other MTH products will sell with their branding/distribution.

The hobby just got more interesting! Didn't see this coming. Well, I'm only good at predicting the past.....

Peter

@superwarp1 posted:

Minus the tooling Lionel acquired, kind of wished MTH held on to it.

And now it looks like MTH wished that it had held on to it.

Does this agreement correct for a big oops?

Mike

@harley rider posted:

I just hope that 2 rail is not forgotten.

Same sentiments here.  There has been no news at all on the MTH 2 rail front.  At least Atlas makes 2 rail versions of some MTH products.

Would have been great if MTH / Atlas (now ?) had held onto the 64 ft. wood side passenger car tooling.

It sounds like this strengthens both Atlas and MTH and their bottom lines.  Why do I think that there is more to this story?  Where's Paul Harvey when you need him?

Art

I only wish there would have been some announcement about:  "The combination of R&D depts. to develop a new DCS, untethered, handheld remote and app".....

I must have had a dream about that.....

This looks to me like a beta test arrangement for a merger if it works out to the satisfaction of both parties.

Maybe we will also see Proto Sound 4 in the future........

Brad

This doesn’t portend MTH stepping up in production in terms of returning to its past role. But it does allow MTH to use its remaining Premier steam locomotive tooling, which no one bought and which hasn’t seen much use since Mike Wolf’s retirement.

It certainly does increase Atlas’ production, however. Having access to locomotive tooling enhances its passenger car line.

As for merger possibilities, who knows? Atlas had its chance three years ago and passed, so I doubt it. And MTH is satisfied with its limited role, given the fact that it invested nothing in terms of new tooling since Wolf’s retirement.

Good news if it only meant MTH can now offer premier passenger cars to go with their engines like the Dreyfuss Hudson.

Pete

A very pleasant surprise from my point of view. And I thought it was funny seeing MTH's old streamliner cars being offered with the GS-4, like "hey, can we have that back?"

It might be a weird thing to see, but I always like seeing two or more manufacturers collaborating like this. I'm really excited to see what comes in the future.

From my 2R perspective this doesn't seem to change anything. Atlas seems to have been relying on purchased tooling over building new tooling for some time now. It seems that we are well past peak Atlas O Master product development. This makes sense from a business perspective, but it falls way short of inspiring me in any way. I doubt this will open the door for new product development. MTH has already shown that they aren't interested in building 2R engines, even those that have existing tooling for 2R Scale Wheel versions. Will the shared market with Atlas change that? I hope so, but I doubt it. The market continues to contract, and consolidation and shared use of existing tooling does makes business sense I suppose.

Yes, this is good for the hobby. But I sold my only MTH locomotive years ago and with with the exception of a couple of cabooses, I'm strictly a Lionel guy. But more power to them.

Hopefully good from the perspective that the paint schemes of the passenger cars and engines should match.

I would say, it’s a Win Win…. Great news for the hobby. Thanks for the news.

@Yellowstone Special posted:

Yes, this is good for the hobby. But I sold my only MTH locomotive years ago and with with the exception of a couple of cabooses, I'm strictly a Lionel guy. But more power to them.

Yeah, for those running Legacy systems this doesn't seem to be win-win anything. Still waiting (and waiting) for the Atlas F units to appear. If Atlas would open the door to more production of their own engines (with ERR control) -- now that would be exciting. This MTH/Atlas intertwining thing is getting confusing.  Who's on first? Can't tell.

@Norton posted:

Good news if it only meant MTH can now offer premier passenger cars to go with their engines like the Dreyfuss Hudson.

Pete

This is exactly why the agreement was made - as you can see the first MTH announcement was the Daylight cars to match their SP Steam Loco.  We will have some things in the York catalog that match up with tooling we bought - stay tuned.

@Paul Graf posted:

This is exactly why the agreement was made - as you can see the first MTH announcement was the Daylight cars to match their SP Steam Loco.  We will have some things in the York catalog that match up with tooling we bought - stay tuned.

Possibly some superliners??

@jonnyspeed posted:

From my 2R perspective this doesn't seem to change anything. Atlas seems to have been relying on purchased tooling over building new tooling for some time now. It seems that we are well past peak Atlas O Master product development. This makes sense from a business perspective, but it falls way short of inspiring me in any way. I doubt this will open the door for new product development. MTH has already shown that they aren't interested in building 2R engines, even those that have existing tooling for 2R Scale Wheel versions. Will the shared market with Atlas change that? I hope so, but I doubt it. The market continues to contract, and consolidation and shared use of existing tooling does makes business sense I suppose.

Within the past year we have released all new tooling of the Mulitmax auto rack, and we have just received and are in the process of shipping out the 40' and 53' rebuilt well cars, also all new tooling.  There are other projects in various stages of development, including an all new locomotive project, something that has never been produced in O (2 rail or 3 rail).  We did not want to announce locomotives, new or rerun, when we weren't able to get a firm production date from any of our factories.  We have gotten into a better position with that now, so we are able to move ahead on some things.

@breezinup posted:

Yeah, for those running Legacy systems this doesn't seem to be win-win anything. Still waiting (and waiting) for the Atlas F units to appear. If Atlas would open the door to more production of their own engines (with ERR control) -- now that would be exciting. This MTH/Atlas intertwining thing is getting confusing.  Who's on first? Can't tell.

The F units are currently slated to ship from the factory prior to the Lunar New Year break.  The factory has asked for the electronics, so the production has commenced.

@DashingDanLIRR posted:

Possibly some superliners??

You'll have to wait 2 more weeks.

Whatever happened to Atlas by Atlas? They used to make some really nice stuff. Now it looks like an MTH yard sale.

@Former Member posted:

This looks to me like a beta test arrangement for a merger if it works out to the satisfaction of both parties.

Very perceptive.

Mr Paul Graf, please do not forget 2 rail.

@Paul Graf posted:

Within the past year we have released all new tooling of the Mulitmax auto rack, and we have just received and are in the process of shipping out the 40' and 53' rebuilt well cars, also all new tooling.  There are other projects in various stages of development, including an all new locomotive project, something that has never been produced in O (2 rail or 3 rail).  We did not want to announce locomotives, new or rerun, when we weren't able to get a firm production date from any of our factories.  We have gotten into a better position with that now, so we are able to move ahead on some things.

Thank you for that inside information, Paul. I appreciate knowing that there is still hope. Those new products fall too far outside of my era for me to have noticed, but I'm sure a lot of people are happy to see them. You'll forgive my pessimism after waiting 7 years for the Geeps to be delivered. I know the past few years have been very difficult, I don't blame you for getting the business on firm footing before announcing new tooling. I look forward to seeing those new projects come to life! I'm a reformed 3 railer and I still have those 3R buying habits as I build my RR roster. It's much more difficult to find models I want in 2R, so I'll take everything I can get!

@breezinup , Your correct about my saying a Win Win, it is a lose lose for TMCC/Legacy, and @Norm Charbonneau hit it on the head asking where the old Atlas O has gone??? My impression is that MTH is looking to widen there horizon in the O gauge market, which is a good sign,  and with this, possibly Atlas O, by increasing their business on one end, can then go back into putting TMCC into their upcoming products for those of us that use the Lionel command systems on the other end. Atlas is missing my business by not offering TMCC/ERR as I do not use the DCS system.
If there are dealers looking at this thread, maybe they will offer special runs on Atlas O diesels in their MasterLine series for Lionel customers. We are watching.  The Quality that Atlas O offers is awesome and their service is first class. Mr. Muffins and Patrick’s Trains could do some special runs. Happy Railroading Everyone

I too run TMCC/Legacy only, so am not interested in DCS locomotives. I am interested in rolling stock that MTH & Atlas may offer, but in passenger equipment only if the cars are scale length.

Jan

@Paul Graf posted:

Within the past year we have released all new tooling of the Mulitmax auto rack, and we have just received and are in the process of shipping out the 40' and 53' rebuilt well cars, also all new tooling.  There are other projects in various stages of development, including an all new locomotive project, something that has never been produced in O (2 rail or 3 rail).  We did not want to announce locomotives, new or rerun, when we weren't able to get a firm production date from any of our factories.  We have gotten into a better position with that now, so we are able to move ahead on some things.

Paul - I cannot give Atlas enough praise for their innovative tooling, especially when it comes to modern rolling stock. Your intermodal and auto rack offerings have knocked it out of the park! I will be picking up several of the new well cars delivering this week.

If I may suggest, I believe a modern spine car set would be a home run for Atlas. And there are many of us begging for JB Hunt intermodal containers.

That will end my shameless plea. I look forward to heading straight to the Atlas booth at York!

- Jason

Interesting and IMO a plus for both MTH and Atlas. A bit different than the 90's when MTH made passenger cars specifically to go with Weaver engines and sold them as MTH product.

Gerry

I have always looked to Atlas for great motive power and rolling stock for the 1970's and 1980's. I guess I have been spoiled over the years but they have delivered great stuff in MKT and MoPac routinely.

I would love to see the following in the future.

- Early style centerbeam flats for lumber with the oval shapped cutouts.

- Thrall steel bathtub hopper / gons in SATX and FPPX. They've NOT been in O scale at all.

- 4427 grain hoppers in MKT green.

- MKT GP40's in Katy Red and MKT Green. No company has done Red Katy Geeps except Weaver 20 years ago. MTH did MKT Green and Bicentennial GP40's and they're as rare as hens teeth.

- SD40-2's in MKT green. MTH did them in almost 15 years go and they're hard to find as well.

- Rerun the MKT and MoPac U23b's. They're even harder to find than the Geeps.

- Rapid Discharge ortner hoppers in GRR, WRRC, and Gifford Hill.

- 53' gons in GRR.

Thank you to Atlas for all your amazing products and enabling my addiction to 70's & 80's Texas railroading.

@breezinup posted:

Yeah, for those running Legacy systems this doesn't seem to be win-win anything. Still waiting (and waiting) for the Atlas F units to appear. If Atlas would open the door to more production of their own engines (with ERR control) -- now that would be exciting. This MTH/Atlas intertwining thing is getting confusing.  Who's on first? Can't tell.

@leapinlarry posted:

@breezinup , Your correct about my saying a Win Win, it is a lose lose for TMCC/Legacy…

…by increasing their business on one end, can then go back into putting TMCC into their upcoming products for those of us that use the Lionel command systems on the other end. Atlas is missing my business by not offering TMCC/ERR as I do not use the DCS system.

While the ERR components are great for upgrading older non-cruise and non-command locomotives, the offerings are a bit long in the tooth for new locomotives. Especially so for diesels that are often run in MUs (lash-ups).

Lionel needs to wake up and start licensing Legacy. They can’t hold on to nearly 20 year old tech for eternity.