MTH app 3.0.0 had big problems? or something else?? 6.1?

As far as I know mth is aware of the problem. It is android specific. Dont know when the next update will be. Hopefully soon, but not too soon as we need all the bugs fixed. I spent all night with some of the same issues as you. Thought it was my equipment or me. Then logged in here to find out about the bug in the app. Love the app as it has brought me back to the mth side of things. Not to mention the price of good used mth ps2 3volt engines.

I don't know why this would happen. I had an engine left on the track last night. It ran fine last night using only the remotes. I went to run it today and none of my remotes could find it? This is after spending a few hours messing with the phone app trying to run other engines, and not getting any good results.

I finally figured out that the engine had an address stored on the board of 13. So I looked in the remote I used last night and now there's no #13??? I don't even remember that engine being in 13 but what good is my memory anyways.

So I added a MTH engine, and there it found and added the engine??? I've had this engine for  a few years.

It's like the app messed up both the remotes and the TIUs. I shouldn't have to figure out what's happening to every engine I want to run now!

I grabbed another engine and of course that engine messed up. I had to reload it and for some reason it just locked up and shut down now. It could be something internal. It was like the engine didn't know what speed to run and was starting to jerk before quitting.

 I just tested that engine on my bench and it runs fine in conventional. I put it back on the track and it moved about an inch and abruptly shut down. I put it back on the bench and it ran fine again. I guess I'll try it next in conventional on the track. Seems like it doesn't know what DCS wants it to do.

 So just maybe there's something weird going on with this app stuff? All of a sudden my layouts are going south.

OK a little further along now.

That engine in the above post is failing. It is an upgraded G scale PS2 GP9 has a BCR in it I believe. That engine won't run properly in conventional now on the track so I can't blame the app yet. It runs fine on the bench but it stumbles on the track. It shut down in conventional finally too. Seems like either the BCR is failing or the circuitry. It shuts down very abruptly. It did run fine last week so co-incidence? I will search on.

 I put an old G scale dash 8 on the track in conventional and it ran fine. So then I connected the TIU. I pressed read on the remote and it was found and ran fine under DCS. I need to run it with the app now and then cycle the power a few times to see what the heck is going on.

 Something is sending me for a loop??

and why I can't get my four androids to update yet they all did last month???

Last night I had my G scale GS4 fail to run properly. Stumbled and stalled like this engine did.

A 2 rail Dreyfuss lost it's smoke unit and now this.

Better get a flu shot Joe. Sounds like a bug is in the house.

Maybe it's a bug in DCS 6.1???

Today I try and run my 2 rail O layout. I had a lash-up built with 2 Dreyfuss Hudsons. I keep getting check track? I tried a read and both engines come up. When I go back to the lash-up the lead engine is not controlled by the remote. Seems like when you build a lash-up and cycle the power, you lose the lash-up?

This stinks. Where's the answer?

Urrggg. I tried it again because I must be a gluten for pain?

Anyways I remembered an older bug when the lead engine is a PS3 and the tail is PS2. So as soon as I could, I toggled the direction button a few times. Now the lash-up works. I thought that was not an issue anymore as I have run this lashup for a few days now without issues.

 I kept getting check track and another message the last time I tried to run this. So I can only guess that the remote did not get the proper response from the lead engine and it messed things up? The trailing engine was responding then.

 So one problem fixed, four more to go.

edited for direction button timing

Joe, try doing a TIU reset. This has fixed some bugs for me in the past.

I might have to

I go down stairs to run a lashup. It was built during this summer on another TIU so I don't expect it to come up, but I'll try. It says engine id #70 not found?

It's right on the track and I ran it last night. So I press read ,and it finds that engine and moves it to active. However it's partner in id #81 won't come out of inactive? So I press read again and the same results. Both engines ran last night? 

BTW it brought up to active a DCS lashup in id #9 consisting of all 3 G scale dash 8 NS engines that are all outside right now in my garage???????????????????????

and before you say it, no there's nothing on the track in id #9. So what the heck is that about? Random results with the read button. Oh NO not again!

 I grab a third, the oldest remote and press read, that comes back with no active engines? I press it again and I watch as it says no TIU #2 found and no TIU #3 found. ( three is off) #2 tiu is the one I'm using. So I tether it and I stand there for what feels like ten minutes and it does nothing!

URRRRGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!! I'm getting sick of this. When a new DCS release comes out the bugs force me to spend hours figuring out how to reconfigure my system to get around all this crap.

 Every new DCS release lately that I do, I have to delete any lash-ups as they don't seem to work anymore. I forgot to do that again since now there's 6.1!!

Don't forget to toggle the direction button if there's a PS3 lashed up to PS2s. Can't start up a lash up with the app right now, but that's fixed. However not for me. WTH.

Yea ha. More fun!

and for the last eight or so years I can't post publicly, because I'm being stalked by some punk from California that blasts crap for any info he can grasp.

Even though he can't connect the red and black wires correctly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joe,

With all due respect, DCS 6.1 is closer to flawless than any past release. I expect that it's not bugs that you're encountering, rather, it's something else.

One thing about posting publicly, is it shows our faults. I just need to vent as I'm really frustrated.

I respect you greatly Barry and apologize for anything this brings out in advance. You don't owe me respect, especially right now.

As many times and you are aware of in the past, it has turned out to be something else. Most recently outside last year my brass track joiners failed conductively due to the elements. That led me chasing ghosts and blaming DCS. Your help has helped me solve every issue I've encountered.

 When I run a train one evening and it won't run the next day, it is frustrating. Usually, it's a battery issue as I have more trains than I can run. This appears to be some kind of engine to TIU association issue, or something like that.

When I get this straightened out , I will post what happened. It seems like I'm in quicksand right now. Every time one things gets resolved, 2 more things go wrong. I now have three more engines on the bench after spending another day at it. I lost smoke in a Dreyfus Hudson and it just was a burned wick. It took more than one attempt to fix that because I blocked the air flow on the first attempt. I'm not happy with it's performance right now, but it is working.

Joe,

Vent away - I certainly "get it"!  

Joe, do you have any other TIU's powered up that are not being used. If I forget to turn my test track TIU off when I use the layout TIU, things get screwy. I tried using a different TIU address, but still had issues.

Dave, I have four TIU's. At that moment, only one was getting power. I have 3 remotes and 3 (4 but one is not used) android devices.

(I also had an old computer running the DCS program to control engines.)

The way that they are set-up and my engine housekeeping lends for troubles when software gets changed.

For the first time ever, I may delete everything and start from scratch. I have too many things in my main O scale remote, that won't run. I have been deleting them on a case by case basis. 

 Before you tell me to make copies of my remotes, I run differently than most users I believe.

I have a main remote that is mainly any O scale engine. That remote has been filled up using all the addresses on different occasions.

 I have my oldest first DCS remote that was cleaned up partially, and converted to only G scale engines. I have a third remote that floats inside or outside depending on the season. So that third remote can cause troubles if I don't pay attention to engine and lash-up addresses. I have many engines overall and many have been upgraded. So they don't have stock boards inside. Adding to any confusion, I started selling off some engines a few years ago.

 I have four TIUs that are split between O scale and G scale. Because the G scale comes inside for the winter months, things can get hairy. I tried my best to keep things straight but when new DCS releases rendered most of my lash-ups obsolete, poor housekeeping led to many addresses missing or used up needlessly. Add to that the fact that I have been running DCS since the early 2000's, just one address overlooked per year can cause havoc.

 Up until recently, I did a good job of keeping things running and straight. When a few lash-up bugs popped up, I did not do a perfect job of deleting lash-ups that were rendered useless. The bug of remotes loosing certain addresses also messed me up. When you have this many engines and you go to run one that the remote lost it's id to, it's hard to keep track of what happened.

 I need to make a list of all engine's addresses in each remote (3) and especially keep certain addresses available for lash-ups. Adding to that my four Android devices that can mess up what addresses are assigned to each engine.

 Life has taught me that I am far from an expert here. The reason I try and help on this forum, is because I have been thru a lot using DCS for so long. The fact that Barry, Marty F, GGG, and others are so good and know more, I bow out to their expertise when they post.

 I do laugh when new users try to tell me what I am doing wrong. BUT, I have learned to look at every post as I don't always look at the obvious from the best perspective.

 The smartest people I've been around in my life, have showed me to have humility and be open to ideas. A former rocket engineer taught me a lot about that just by working with him for a year. When a young fresh from college engineer tried to outsmart him on every turn, he became obstinate towards him. He always asked my opinions on some easy tasks because he knew that I had experience with it. That drove that young engineer nuts because he would flaunt his new credentials over mine. Yet he had no practical experience in anything.

No offence Joe, but right now this WIU and the app are so new were very limited on expert advise. Many times on the forum here I've seen the simplest things, that cause issues, get over looked. Sometimes those newbies who only know a few simple fixes, figure it out before those who have hundreds of fixes in their head. So I too take every single comment that's thrown at me into consideration when I can't figure it out. It's a process of elimination. I feel your pain how this problem is frustrating you, but I personally would never laugh at who a comment is coming from. If you turn back the clock, Barry, Marty F, GGG, GRJ and all the experts were newbies at one time. Every comment that gets posted is read by them too, if their following the post, and it gets their wheels tuning to also help them find the fix in their file bank. If you notice it's very rare that the fix is accomplished in the first reply. So that tells me were all still learning. Even the experts. Isn't it great to know when we post an issue here that there are people reading it all over the country, that are picking their brain going through their memories, to try to help us. Thank you OGR for this great forum. 

Joe,

A few things to keep in mind:

• Never have a TIU in a remote if that TIU is not powered on. However, this isn't a problem for the app.
• Never have 2 TIUs powered on if they have the same DCS ID#. However, this will only be an issue for the app if both TIUs have WIUs attached and powered on.
• A WIU that's powered on will also provide enough power to its attached TIU (if connected to the TIU's USB port) to power it on, as well, even if the TIU is not otherwise powered. However, it will not power the TIU's DCS signal generators, and will not allow engine control.

OK, thanks Barry. (*)

here's the new app at work on a lash-up that was created in ID#1 in the remote and now in the phone:

It works!!!

HOWEVER!!..... something else weird went on that I'll report. (The address numbers are just examples as I did not keep records of exact numbers.)

this lash-up was run with TIU#1,address #1 in the phone, and then all was shut down.

I then powered up TIU#2 that's connected to my G scale loops below the O. Posted above were failed attempts last night for any remote to see the engine in address #70. edit: I had to plug my only WIU into that TIU for the G scale.

The first time I pressed the refresh on the phone, I got what I would call a ghost engine with no name as ID#1 (address #1) in the active screen. There were 3 G scale engines on the track, in address #16, #70 and #81 in the remotes. The #16 AFT GS4 was just changed last night from address #1 to keep that open for new adds.

 So I pressed the refresh on the app and this time it came up with addresses #1, #9 with no names.  Why does it keep finding these weird slots?

 The third time I finally got the address #1, #70 and #81. Which actually would be correct for the last two engines that have not been added to the phone. Why the #1 I did not know. I guessed that the engine address change did not stick so I pressed the start up button after picking engine #1, and the AFT GS4 started?

 I realized that I had not added those engines so instead of pressing the refresh, I selected add MTH engine three times. The first time, it added the GS4 to address #16 OK. I still don't know what it saw in address #1???

 The second add put the next two engines in the next two slots instead of leaving them at 70 and 81? Ok I can handle that. At least the phone could find the engine that the remotes could not find last night.

My oldest remote still can't even find the TIU!!

 I then built a lash-up with the 2 G scale VO1000s and it ran fine with the phone.

I believe there's some kind of bug in the DCS version 6.x that is messing up the remotes and the TIU's communication, or associations to engines.

(*) I have to note that I did not delete a TIU any time it was not powered in my remotes. I never thought I had to delete them in each session. I have 2 TIUs that are dedicated for G scale and the other 2 are dedicated for O scale. So maybe all this is my fault again??

My dedicated G scale remote does not have a TIU #1 listed. It has #2 and #3

My dedicated O scale remote only lists TIU #1 and #4 I believe.

All this used to work in the past but now must be a problem with the way I run.

I may just abandoned the remotes if that cures my issues?

I finally got time to watch my Street Outlaws program that tapped the other day. I always sympathize with the problems they have after the money they spend. Makes these toy train problems seem like a cake walk.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Joe,

A few things to keep in mind:

• #1 Never have a TIU in a remote if that TIU is not powered on. However, this isn't a problem for the app.
• #2 Never have 2 TIUs powered on if they have the same DCS ID#. However, this will only be an issue for the app if both TIUs have WIUs attached and powered on.
• #3 A WIU that's powered on will also provide enough power to its attached TIU (if connected to the TIU's USB port) to power it on, as well, even if the TIU is not otherwise powered. However, it will not power the TIU's DCS signal generators, and will not allow engine control.

#1 I don't do that and now I will. I think I will have to have separate remotes and now android devices for G scale and O.

#2 I knew that one or at least I should have known!

#3 I also knew that and this time, it did not apply. I only own one WIU, so I have to plug it in to whatever TIU I wish for it to control.

and yes I know, I'll need 3 more WIUs soon. Throw that one the list for the future.

Joe,

I believe there's some kind of bug in the DCS version 6.x that is messing up the remotes and the TIU's communication, or associations to engines.

It's possible, although I highly doubt it. I would have almost certainly encountered it by now, since I try diligently to find things exactly like that in every DCS release.  

Some of that is from reading so many user experiences that have had issues with their remotes finding engines lately. I don't usually base my thoughts on that but when I ran into it myself now, I can't ignore it.

 So, I will work to rule it out or prove that it's real.

Why did the phone app read addresses that weren't even on the track? (address #9 for example)

Why does the remote now struggle to find engines using the read?

(I have to delete and re-add them with varying results)

Finally, how did my 3rd remote loose the TIUs totally? I have to find that one out first. 

Something had gotten buggered up when I upgraded all my TIUs at once. Some engines lost their associations with their TIUs and all previous lash-ups were rendered useless. Add to that one remote now has failed, one engine got scrambled speed problems, etc.

If it's not a bug then it is due to the way I handle my remotes, TIUs, and engine addresses. There are duplicate addresses that have been created like maybe a lash-up run in slot #9 using those 2 VO1000s? I will have to now go look into what is in #9 in all my devices.

BARRY BROSKOWITZ   you say there might be a bug in DCS version 6.x that might be messing up the remotes. so I am assuming you mean the DCS remote and TIU?

and that it might be making an issue between the remote and the app and or vice versa?

also I will assume that all DCS remotes and the Apps must all have same information otherwise one systems application can mess up the other thus creating issues or errors or am I misunderstanding?

See what happens when you talk to me Barry? You'll never learn! 

I think we can agree that there will be a problem if users acquire the WIU and start adding engines to that, without consideration for their remotes.

That would lead to the remotes not finding the engines where it thinks they should be.

 I'm searching for why I lose associations to TIUs with engines that I purposely keep the addresses in the correct place, when I upgraded the TIU's software.

Barry stated that there maybe something or maybe not. I wouldn't shove words into his mouth!

address #9 does not come up in my extra 3rd remote. #9 did come up in my dedicated G scale remote as a lash-up with 2 Dash 8s that are outside. Those would have been run with this TIU#2 last summer.

 #9 is a SD70ACe in my O scale remote running with TIU#1 that is not powered, and did not have the WIU connected to it.

So where did the phone see a ghost engine in address #9????????

ENGINEER-JOE said...

I think we can agree that there will be a problem if users acquire the WIU and start adding engines to that, without consideration for their remotes.

so where exactly is the information stored when using a WIU and the new APP?

and better still wouldn't it make sense for the dcs remote/tiu and the app-wiu to sync to each other gaining needed information from each other thus both on same page eliminating the issue?

and I wasn't meaning to or implying to put words into any ones mouth on questions asked. I also did not take offense to your reply on that just for clarity on that.

seeing I am not using dcs or the app one must at least ask as to how it works to gain an understanding of it.

I wish you all luck and enjoyment using these newer approaches to running your trains.

St. Paul,

you say there might be a bug in DCS version 6.x that might be messing up the remotes. so I am assuming you mean the DCS remote and TIU?

No, I'm not saying that at all. Rather, I'm saying thatit's unlikely that there is such a problem.

so where exactly is the information stored when using a WIU and the new APP?

Information that is stored in the app is the same as what's stored in the remote.

and better still wouldn't it make sense for the dcs remote/tiu and the app-wiu to sync to each other gaining needed information from each other thus both on same page eliminating the issue?

No, it would not. Doing so would disallow having multiple configurations in different remotes and apps running upon different smartphones and tablets. Regardless, it's not easily possible because remotes and apps cannot talk to each other, or other remotes or apps. All remotes talk only to TIUs and all apps also talk only to TIUs, albeit via WIUs.

One can make apps and remotes all have the same data, if one desires, using the remote cloning and import/export functions.

This and a whole lot more about DCS is all in MTH’s “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

This and a whole lot more about DCS WiFi is all in MTH’s “The DCS WiFi Companion 1st Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store! Get the free TMCC & Legacy Addendum here!

Barry    so if you clone both the remote to the phone app of whatever phone your using then that would eliminate issues using one or the other to run trains do I have this correct?

so then any changes made on one or the other would need to be re-cloned again from the original cloning correct?

I will assume a mth manual to understand how this all works isn't available other than the books you have created?

nice of you to do so, but to me this all falls under mth responsibility I intend no malice here so please don't take it that way.

St. Paul,

so if you clone both the remote to the phone app of whatever phone your using then that would eliminate issues using one or the other to run trains do I have this correct?

Pretty much, although there are a few small "nuances" between the remote and the app.

For example, the remote doesn't do Legacy and the app does, and the app doesn't have Z4K Tracks, and the remote does.

so then any changes made on one or the other would need to be re-cloned again from the original cloning correct?

Yes, that's correct. However, again there is a caveat. While the remote clone file can be imported into an app, an app export file cannot be loaded into a remote.

I will assume a mth manual to understand how this all works isn't available other than the books you have created?

There is an MTH document that addresses the Standard version of the app, however, there is not at present an MTH document that addresses the Premium version of the app.

Are we having fun yet  I was just thinking that most of all the RR have converted from steam to diesel.   If batteries can power cars why can't they power electric toy trains?