The long awaited WTIU is at dealers now. Got mine yesterday and will be doing a shakedown today.
Stay tuned!
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Awesome! Still waiting on mine from trainworld. I'm new to dcs so I'm looking forward to your videos.
Sean, looking forward to hearing your experience - specifically if there is some process that must be followed in order to get all equipment recognized, etc. Thanks, Bob
Has anyone seen a pdf version of the WTIU manual anywhere? 
Rod
WTIU Users Guide here:
@Porschev posted:WTIU Users Guide here:
Hey thanks for that; I couldn't seem to find it for some reason! 
It's up and running and pretty solid. One little hiccup with hardware. Check it out. Also, I opened it up to check out the inside. Since I never liked the handheld, for me this is a perfect fit to my railroad.
Remember, if any info I gave is something I did not know or something I did not think of, that someone knows better, just politely correct me on here!
Nice job Sean!
Looking at the main board (through your video) it appears to be of a new design/layout with a lot of newer components compared to the Rev L. TIU. I was trying to find certain devices like the 74ACT244 chips but couldn't find them. Perhaps I missed them or they have been replaced with a different design or new package. I'll be interested to see how "robust" and serviceable this new design will be over the coming months. I didn't notice any Revision marking on the bottom case, but then the first TIU didn't either.
How does the MTH DCS Handheld Remote "tether" to the new WTIU? Thanks.
@Porschev posted:How does the MTH DCS Handheld Remote "tether" to the new WTIU? Thanks.
It DOESN'T
Not until someone hacks it, or they- they make a USB adapter.
@Vernon Barry posted:It DOESN'T
Not until someone hacks it, or they- they make a USB adapter.
@Porschev posted:How does the MTH DCS Handheld Remote "tether" to the new WTIU? Thanks.
MTH has already said they are making a USB remote cable. They've said this at the various events they did at the hobby shops.
@MartyE posted:MTH has already said they are making a USB remote cable. They've said this at the various events they did at the hobby shops.
It doesn't count UNTIL you the customer can buy one. How long did we wait for the WTIU to arrive??????!!!!
Further- all the sudden, it went from a listed feature to an extra cost option???
@Vernon Barry posted:It doesn't count UNTIL you the customer can buy one. How long did we wait for the WTIU to arrive??????!!!!
Further- all the sudden, it went from a listed feature to an extra cost option???
I don't know what you want me to say. MTH has stated it would be making a cable. If you have a beef with how they sold it, take it up with them.
@Sean's Train Depot posted:It's up and running and pretty solid. One little hiccup with hardware. Check it out. Also, I opened it up to check out the inside. Since I never liked the handheld, for me this is a perfect fit to my railroad.
Remember, if any info I gave is something I did not know or something I did not think of, that someone knows better, just politely correct me on here!
That's a nice review Sean. I will point out that during your video you mentioned that if you use the ethernet connection, one can omit connecting the wi-fi antenna. I would not recommend this as the wi-fi radio is still transmitting and not having an antenna connected could damage it over time.
If you truly do not want the antenna connected, we should disable the wireless radio in LuCi.
Also, if you use the ethernet connection in MTH mode, devices can connect directly to the wtiu via the MTH wi-fi network or through your home wireless network as it now hard wired to the wtiu.
@Porschev posted:How does the MTH DCS Handheld Remote "tether" to the new WTIU? Thanks.
@H1000 posted:That's a nice review Sean. I will point out that during your video you mentioned that if you use the ethernet connection, one can omit connecting the wi-fi antenna. I would not recommend this as the wi-fi radio is still transmitting and not having an antenna connected could damage it over time.
If you truly do not want the antenna connected, we should disable the wireless radio in LuCi.
Also, if you use the ethernet connection in MTH mode, devices can connect directly to the with via the MTH wi-fi network or through your home wireless network as it now hard wired to the wtiu.
I will point out that during your video you mentioned that if you use the ethernet connection, one can omit connecting the wi-fi antenna.
I was just going by what was in the guide for the WTIU. Page 8 under the Wired Ethernet connection. So, if MTH says it, I think its ok.
1. Attach the antenna to the WTIU (It isn’t necessary of course but, it’s a great place to
store it!).
Also, if you use the ethernet connection in MTH mode, devices can connect directly to the with via the MTH wi-fi network or through your home wireless network as it now hard wired to the wtiu.
Thats interesting, I went with Wi-Fi, because the ethernet connection made the bootup time even longer (closer to 2 min).
I will have to play with it both ways. Thanks for the info.
@Vernon Barry posted:It doesn't count UNTIL you the customer can buy one. How long did we wait for the WTIU to arrive??????!!!!
Further- all the sudden, it went from a listed feature to an extra cost option???
I don't recall them saying it was going to be free, just that there would be a cable. Guessing it has to be a special one since its USB on one end and the phone jack on other. But I am not a handheld remote user, so it doesn't really affect me and probably a lot of others who use the app, which is super easy to use.
Sean, I am sure you video is great as past ones have been, and without watching it, do I understand correctly that the WTIU is not compatible with the DCS controller but will be via future cable? If so, was it a cost-cutting issue not to make it backward compatible with DCS controller? And to my rudimentary understand, isn't the "W" mean "wireless" and that is what a DCS controller is? If it doesn't work with a DCS handheld, then I am sure glad I bought an extra TIU a couple of years ago, as well as an extra DCS controller. I am guessing though if an operator wants to use both phone and controller, than he/she would need to hook up a conventional TIU to the WTIU?
@Paul Kallus posted:And to my rudimentary understand, isn't the "W" mean "wireless" and that is what a DCS controller is?
The original TIU doesn't have a "W" so does that mean it is not wireless?
I believe "W" stands for Wi-Fi.
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"I am guessing though if an operator wants to use both phone and controller, than he/she would need to hook up a conventional TIU to the WTIU?"
I don't know that the WTIU has any way of hooking up to the old TIUs. If you want to use the DCS handheld in wireless mode, stick with the original TIUs is my guess. The WTIU has a input for a forthcoming cable that will enable wired use of the DCS handheld. No remote wireless capability. For wireless remote capability with the WTIU, you need the DCS app and a smart device.
As to why the WTIU isn't backwardly compatible with the DCS handheld in wireless mode, only MTH knows whether it was cost, parts availability or other factors.
Remember that neither MTH nor Lionel has more than one or two people working on these products, so that constrains their capabilities and ambitions. This isn't Apple or Samsung we're working with here 
.
@Sean's Train Depot posted:I will point out that during your video you mentioned that if you use the ethernet connection, one can omit connecting the wi-fi antenna.
I was just going by what was in the guide for the WTIU. Page 8 under the Wired Ethernet connection. So, if MTH says it, I think its ok.
1. Attach the antenna to the WTIU (It isn’t necessary of course but, it’s a great place to
store it!).
Consult the manual for any WiFi router that has detachable antennas, they will all highly recommend against this practice. HAM radio operators would have a similar opinion, see what they say about using a transmitter without a proper antenna or a dummy load.
According to Mike Wolf the RADIO RF transmitter chips & parts are no longer available and i know my MTH repairman was unable to repair one of my handhelds because the RF transmitter was not available. so MTH decided to go to Wi-Fi others went to Bluetooth, guess it's called progress.
Sean, appreciate the video. Just wanted to confirm the the latest App works with the previous stand alone wifi unit? I just have the free version.
Pete
@Norton posted:Sean, appreciate the video. Just wanted to confirm the the latest App works with the previous stand alone wifi unit? I just have the free version.
Pete
It did on mine, so I would say yes!
I watched the demo that Mr. Wolf gave at Mr. Muffin's, and what I walked away with was that other than the variable DC feature, there's no additional features provided (it's just a TIU with a built-in wifi-module), and you lose the ability to use a wireless handheld controller (totally understand the RF-chip availability). Can't connect to TMCC because no cable (yet), can't tether to an old handheld because no cable (yet). I appreciated the overview and will probably cancel my pre-order. There's nothing here for me, it seems. The majority of the discussion was about the same app we are all using today, but nothing new there either. That makes sense, because unless there's a ton of margin in the WTIU boxes themselves (which I'm guessing isn't the case) the whole reason Mike/MTH are pushing this is to get more upgraded app purchases.
That was the one part of the discussion where I laughed, when he indicated that the $25 cost was "where Google and Apple make their money" without mentioning it was ALSO where MTH makes its money. 😂 I've never met him or seen him speak before, but Mr. Wolf is clearly a very good salesman.
I continue to be impressed with some of the deeper features of DCS, even if some of them are so esoteric that I'm not sure I'd ever use them. It's clear that someone who loves trains has done a tremendous amount of work to include all of the sounds and doppler features and scale mph calculations. I also like the "virtual transformer" feature being built directly into the TIU using the variable ports. There's some good stuff there but doesn't seem like I need the new hardware to use any of it.
Thanks for the video @Sean's Train Depot and thanks for sharing the talk @MrMuffin'sTrains!
@J.Dooley posted:I watched the demo that Mr. Wolf gave at Mr. Muffin's, and what I walked away with was that other than the variable DC feature, there's no additional features provided (it's just a TIU with a built-in wifi-module), and you lose the ability to use a wireless handheld controller (totally understand the RF-chip availability). Can't connect to TMCC because no cable (yet), can't tether to an old handheld because no cable (yet). I appreciated the overview and will probably cancel my pre-order. There's nothing here for me, it seems. The majority of the discussion was about the same app we are all using today, but nothing new there either. That makes sense, because unless there's a ton of margin in the WTIU boxes themselves (which I'm guessing isn't the case) the whole reason Mike/MTH are pushing this is to get more upgraded app purchases.
That was the one part of the discussion where I laughed, when he indicated that the $25 cost was "where Google and Apple make their money" without mentioning it was ALSO where MTH makes its money. 😂 I've never met him or seen him speak before, but Mr. Wolf is clearly a very good salesman.
If you already had a functioning TIU/WIU combo then yes, there is nothing for you. The WTIU isn't go do anything special beyond the old DCS setup. It will add some convenience features to the app at a future date with uploading sound files to engines and update firmware for the device without using LuCi.
The whole $25 app cost thing is a bit comical. Publishing apps is next to free, Apple does charge a very low annual fee developer membership fee but I'd think MTH could absorb that. Apple & Google do take a percentage of the upgrade fee but I wonder how many new purchases MTH sees for app upgrade? I paid once back in 2017, ran it on about a dozen devices and never needed to pay again.
@H1000 posted:If you already had a functioning TIU/WIU combo then yes, there is nothing for you. The WTIU isn't go do anything special beyond the old DCS setup. It will add some convenience features to the app at a future date with uploading sound files to engines and update firmware for the device without using LuCi.
The whole $25 app cost thing is a bit comical. Publishing apps is next to free, Apple does charge a very low annual fee developer membership fee but I'd think MTH could absorb that. Apple & Google do take a percentage of the upgrade fee but I wonder how many new purchases MTH sees for app upgrade? I paid once back in 2017, ran it on about a dozen devices and never needed to pay again.
Yeah, of course, it would be nice if it was free, but a one-time 25.00 charge is not that big a deal in end if you think about what we pay for engines!
@Jim Teeple posted:According to Mike Wolf the RADIO RF transmitter chips & parts are no longer available and i know my MTH repairman was unable to repair one of my handhelds because the RF transmitter was not available. so MTH decided to go to Wi-Fi others went to Bluetooth, guess it's called progress.
I think the old RF radios are outdated, and everything today is either Wi-Fi or BT now for communications.
Perhaps the rumors of a Wi-Fi remote will appear in the future but for right now, it's the app. By the way the MTH app is very well designed and super easy to use if you have never tried it.
@Landsteiner posted:"I am guessing though if an operator wants to use both phone and controller, than he/she would need to hook up a conventional TIU to the WTIU?"
I don't know that the WTIU has any way of hooking up to the old TIUs. If you want to use the DCS handheld in wireless mode, stick with the original TIUs is my guess. The WTIU has a input for a forthcoming cable that will enable wired use of the DCS handheld. No remote wireless capability. For wireless remote capability with the WTIU, you need the DCS app and a smart device.
As to why the WTIU isn't backwardly compatible with the DCS handheld in wireless mode, only MTH knows whether it was cost, parts availability or other factors.
Remember that neither MTH nor Lionel has more than one or two people working on these products, so that constrains their capabilities and ambitions. This isn't Apple or Samsung we're working with here
The manual does mention the WTIU in combination with older WIU/TIU, so seems like they can work together. I just don't have that kind of setup to test it.
Someone reminded me that the reason you may want to use the feature that allows you to change the SSID and password, is if it's a club running at shows and other WTIU's are in same area, then the MTH networks won't clash with each other. So that is a great feature for clubs. I did not think of that so great point!
@Porschev posted:How does the MTH DCS Handheld Remote "tether" to the new WTIU? Thanks.
Mike Wolfe mentioned you will need 2 cables. A regular phone handset cable (available on Amazon any length you want) and then a special pigtail cable (due out in about a month or so) that will plug into the USB port and then your phone cable.
Same thing in hooking up the TMCC/Legacy. You need the original cable and then a special pigtail for the USB/Serial connection (also not out yet).
If using both he said you will need to buy a USB splitter cable off Amazon.
So, everything is being hooked up through the USB port except AIU's which have a dedicated port.
I want to get a used I pad to use the app with, my VERY old Apple Pad says
" NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THIS IPAD " when I try to download the app,
What should I look for when shopping for a used iPad ?
@Jim Teeple posted:I want to get a used I pad to use the app with, my VERY old Apple Pad says
" NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THIS VERSION " when I try to download the app,
What should I look for when shopping for a used iPad ?
Thats strange, how old is it? I am using an iPad Mini 4, which is pretty old, and it works fine.
I also saw Protocast will be working in a future update (does not work yet), where you just play through your device.
So, we got clarification there too
I get it isn't much different than an older Rev L TIU. But, they aren't making older Rev L TIU's anymore, so this is the new TIU, upgraded so you don't need a WIU. I'm sure they wanted to make the DCS Remote compatible, but if you can no longer get RF chips, you're out of luck. Just glad I have a system to continue running my MTH locos when the old TIU dies!
Mike
@Sean's Train Depot posted:I think the old RF radios are outdated, and everything today is either Wi-Fi or BT now for communications.
I can assure you, if you want to build a 900mhz transceiver, it is still possible. 
@Sean's Train Depot posted:Thats strange, how old is it? I am using an iPad Mini 4, which is pretty old, and it works fine.
It is Version 9.3.5 ( 13G36 ) Model MC769LL/A whatever that is.
I listened to Mike at Berwyn's Hobbies yesterday. Listening and talking with him was very fun.
I agree that the new WTIU doesn't have anything new for us current WIFI WIU users in terms of features.
However the new system is less hardware. With my current WIFI system there is the WIU box, a plug from it to an electric outlet, and a cable from the WIU to the TIU. Those 3 things go away.
One thing he did not mention, presumably because it's not ready yet, but we have seen published by MTH, is the ability to program engines "over the air". Engine programing will become a function inside the app. This will be very convienient to use my iPhone instead of doing what I do now. Which is pulling out my old IBM laptop, waiting 2 hours for all the downloads to finish, connect the serial cable, then finally run the DCS Loader client server app.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I can assure you, if you want to build a 900mhz transceiver, it is still possible.
The Popularity of 2.4GHz Wi-Fi and Bluetooth has made that spectrum cheap to manufacture new products. OTOH, 900Mhz, while still available, is expensive to use as there are considerably fewer manufacturers developing and pushing products for that spectrum.
Back when the DCS remote was on the drawing board (1999 - 2000 ish), 900 MHz was much more popular and widely used in various consumer electronics, not so much anymore. In fact, around that time, 2.4GHz equipment was seeing only a glimpse of development for use in consumer Wi-Fi as 802.11b was ratified in 1999 and was VERY expensive compared to the cheap 900MHz stuff already on the market. Bluetooth didn't see the consumer market until around 2002 and again was expensive.
To put some perspective on this, I bought a 900MHz cordless phone in 2000 for $70. My first (beta) 2.4GHz Wi-Fi adaptors (802.11 1-2 Mbps - before 802.11b) bought in 1998 cost $180 each. The current tides of technology have flipped those costs driven by the demand for more speed and bandwidth that 900MHz couldn't provide.
@Jim Teeple posted:It is Version 9.3.5 ( 13G36 ) Model MC769LL/A whatever that is.
My Model 7 iPad can’t even connect to the App Store. My Model 9 still works.
Pete
@H1000 posted:The Popularity of 2.4GHz Wi-Fi and Bluetooth has made that spectrum cheap to manufacture new products. OTOH, 900Mhz, while still available, is expensive to use as there are considerably fewer manufacturers developing and pushing products for that spectrum.
None of which changes my answer that the 900mhz capability is possible. It might be a bit more expensive, but that would be the only way to retain compatibility with the thousands of DCS remotes that are in circulation.
