MTH engines do not run on MTH transformers but work with Lionel

Same answer as before Barry chased you out of the other forum.

It works with the old Lionel ZW, 1960's vintage, as well as the new CW80 Lionel.

it only has not worked with the MTH Z1000 and Z750

I answered you, with a question, back from whence you were chased.

No good deed goes unpunished...

It hearkens back to your plea, Barry, that when posting a question, forumites give model numbers and pertinent details.  History may yet prove you correct on this thread..

The guy is new here,give him a break. Nice to have new posters instead of us curmudgeons arguing with each other. 

The Z750,1000 to my knowledge put out chopped sine waves,not pure sine waves. Some MTH boards do not like chopped sine waves.Curious that it works with a CW.  This assumes the original electronics is even in the engines,he purchased them second hand. 

Dale H

Dale, I thought the Z500 & 1000 bricks put out sine wave but the controllers chopped it if you wanted less than full power.

I have the SD 45 diesel and mine works fine on DCS with the transformer,s you mentioned Z750 MTH and with the z4000 no issues at all! 30-2194-1 item number

Alan

I have had a issue ounce with was the Z750 and it turns out the controller was defective!

My impression too. Most likely he runs conventional and uses the controller. It seems like it is an old loco with a QSI reverse unit,no sound.

Dale H

I have a couple of PS1 locos (Sou Ps-4 Pacific and ATSF 4-8-4), un-converted to ERR as yet,

and they will not run on any modern transformer - MTH, Lionel brick w/Powermaster, and

so forth (OK, the 4-6-2 occasionally tries - and fails).

They will both run fine on my test track that uses a little basic PW transformer.

This is a known thing - the old PS1 was designed for old Lionel, etc., transformers.

His electronics are probably original. I know nothing about the CW except that it exists.

====

BTW, was there some reason that his question was out of line? And who decides that anyway? Strange.

Thank you all for all your responses.

I am new to the forum and impressed with the level of knowledge and support.

FYI - I had called MTH Tech Support 3 months ago on this issue.

they told me I needed a Reset Kit. After 3 months on backorder, The Reset kit arrived this week and I installed and it still did not fix the issue of not running with my Z1000 and Z750.

they then told me to call a MTH repair center. I tried the old transformers and the engines ran. the repair center gave me the lead to this forum.

thanks again.

PS - I also posted an issue with one of my old ZW's. It had tripped and not reset. Both the red and green lights are now lit. Is replacing the circuit breaker the only possible solution and cause of the problem.

On the ZW, it could be a broken wire or connection inside, but is most probably the breaker. 

After getting it working, you should use external breakers, as the old ZW thermal breakers are iffy things, not reliable or completely safe.

As to your locos, I'd suggest you contact GGG who is a frequent contributor to the PS2&3 forum.  He is the outstanding expert on MTH boards.

I looked at a gentleman's SD45 that had the SKU# starting with MT and ended with LP. His main complaint was that the chip was scrambled, but before the chip scrambled it wouldn't run on a Z1000 transformer. It had a 2 meg chip, I swapped a "plug and play" top and bottom board, and a new 4 meg chip, furnished with help from Jeff at MTH, it now runs well using my Z1000 at home before returning it to the customer. Kind of radical surgery for a simple fix, but the owner was happy that it runs on the Z1k transformer. 

My suggestion:  go to a store (I hope you are near one) and operate the engine(s) using their MTH transformer.  And then see what happens. 

We are assuming the problem is the train when it may be the transformer (controller) or the power brick.  No detail here in this thread (maybe there was in the other one folks are referencing) about where the MTH transformers were acquired (new or used).

It is not the transformer. I tried 2 separate MTH transformers and neither operates the engines. I have no problem with newer engines from MT H.

MTH Z-750/1000 have varied over the years,  I have seen bricks rated at 24V, 22, 18 depending on the year and the set.  Same issue can be had with a PW ZW that puts out over 20V when feed through a Power Master.  Best to lower the input to around 16-18V.

The problem is that at higher voltages the Lionel Power Master doesn't do well with the voltage, and possibly the Z controllers are distorting the voltage too much to get a lower voltage output.

Check your Brick voltage output manufacture data.

The early QSI and PS-1 like (Need) pure sine wave input.  After about 1996 the boards were modified to deal with the modern electronic transformers and work well with them.

Most of my PS-1 fleet is 1997 and up and I have no issues working them on K-Line, and Lionel ZW-C and Power Master transformers.  G

Good point about the bricks George!  I was surprised to see a 24V brick on a Z1000, before that I hadn't realized they had something that high. 

Guns,

   This is the reason I keep indicating the Z-1000 is the smallest transformer I recommend for a nice size layout, the Z-1000 is a powerful transformer when set up properly.  In reality it is not all that small in power, just compact in size.  For a guy looking to expand and upgrade his RTR Train Set, the Z-1000 IMO is definitely a good choice.

PCRR/Dave

Dave, for 1" more in length and the same width and height, you can have the Lionel PH180.  Almost twice the power and a far superior electronic circuit breaker.  It's my choice of the power bricks, I know of no equal for a simple brick.  When you add the variable throttle control to the requirements, I lean to the Z4000 as it has close to a pure sine wave and should be compatible with the widest variety of equipment.

I have a PS-1 Empire State Express Item 20-3016-L...it will not work with MTH but will with Lionel 1033 transformer...go figure....joe

Is this an early PS1 engine (mid 1990's) that requires a pure sine-wave transformer?

I went through this years ago with trying a Z-750 transformer.  Took the engine to a LHS and it ran great with their Z-4000 (pure sine-wave).  I bought a pure sine-wave transformer - no more issues.

The sine wave that the Z1000 puts out is not compatible with some of the PS 1 sound boards. I had this problem one time I ended up just changing out the sound chip with a new one I had on hand and it ran with no problem. I thought I was losing my mind when I would try the old Lionel ZW and then the Z1000.  If you have another PS 1 that runs on the Z1000 swap out the chips for a test and reset to defaults.

Thanks for the info! I will try.

Guns,

   I agree 100%, however now we are talking a much bigger investment in transformers for a guy who is just up grading a RTR set, eventually he may invest in some of the transformers we now own, you are definitely correct the Z4K does eliminate some engine problems with the Pure Sign Wave engineering , however many people in our O gauge hobby limit the size and cost of their layouts especially where high grade transformers are concerned. The Z-1000 is a cost effective up grade for a medium sized layout, maybe later he might invest in a Z4K's or go your way with the PH180.  If he is eventually planning to have a large layout, his best move is to invest in the Z4K's or the PH180's skipping completely the purchase the mid sized transformers, however many people choose to stay with the mid sized transformers and layouts for the rest of their lives.  A lot of this depends on money and the size of layout people can set up in their homes.  I still advise them to always over power their layouts, sooner or later they will expand even with limited space, building multi-level layouts, depending on their interests. 

PCRR/Dave

Just a comment on the Z1000 transformer, I have a Lionel Conventional Classic GP-7 with horn and bell, neither the horn or bell will work with my Z4000, but when I run the loco with my Z1000, both the horn and bell work. It also has enough power for my 4' by 8' test loop, pulling five postwar cars easily. 

Train Doc,

   Using both DCS and Legacy all your Lionel GP7 options will operate even powering

with the Z-1000 transformer, using either the Legacy Cab2 or the DCS (HHRC) Hand Held Remote Control.

PCRR/Dave