MTH Galloping Goose won't run on conventional--Dings and sits there--please help

In the absence of other replies, I'll offer this idea.

I believe it could be the transformer. My understanding is some Lionel transformers put out a "clipped" sine-wave. MTH products like a "pure" sine-wave.  My recent experience seems to have proven this to be true.    I put a MTH loco with QSI Proto sounds on my Christmas tree layout and pulled out an old Lionel 1033 transformer for power.  The loco would start up fine but when trying to change directions was very hit or miss whether I used the direction lever on the transformer or cycled the power off and on.

I switched to a MTH Z 750 transformer and that solved all the problems.      

I believe MTH manuals have a list of compatible transformers.

Edit

I just checked the manual for one of my QSI Proto Sound locos and there is a transformer compatibility chart listed.  Funny that my Lionel 1033 transformer is listed as compatible.

Change the battery with a new freshly charged one.

Gerald is correct, it sounds like the battery is dead.

If it is new, then the old white battery is surly dead. The headlights won't come on until it is running. I'm with Gerald, change the battery.

@Ward H posted:

In the absence of other replies, I'll offer this idea.

I believe it could be the transformer. My understanding is some Lionel transformers put out a "clipped" sine-wave. MTH products like a "pure" sine-wave.  My recent experience seems to have proven this to be true.    I put a MTH loco with QSI Proto sounds on my Christmas tree layout and pulled out an old Lionel 1033 transformer for power.  The loco would start up fine but when trying to change directions was very hit or miss whether I used the direction lever on the transformer or cycled the power off and on.

I switched to a MTH Z 750 transformer and that solved all the problems.      

I believe MTH manuals have a list of compatible transformers.

Edit

I just checked the manual for one of my QSI Proto Sound locos and there is a transformer compatibility chart listed.  Funny that my Lionel 1033 transformer is listed as compatible.

Good call - OP said he's using a K-Line transformer - I didn't see any K-Line transformers listed in the MTH manual.

We tried a new Duracell 9V and nothing happened.

We also have a Trainmaster V and what is either a A-90 or Q-75 transformer.

Could we have fried something by having the wires backwards (the U-post going to the outer instead of the center rail, or vice versa) the very first time we powered it up? My dad doesn't think so, since it is AC, but I'm worried we fried something by not checking the track wiring before powering it up.

EDIT: we think this is new, but it was from an auction and there is no proof it was NIB.  I don't know if my dad is willing to spend money on an MTH remote or whatever was optimal to control this thing.

Swapping the transformer leads to the track should not damage anything, it just reverses the whistle and bell functions.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Swapping the transformer leads to the track should not damage anything, it just reverses the whistle and bell functions.

Thanks for relieving that worry!

And yes, the transformer we tried was the ubiquitous "K-line starter kit's basic black transformer"

@Micro posted:

We tried a new Duracell 9V and nothing happened.

As mentioned by others, the original battery (likely bad) is rechargeable - not sure that using a regular battery is a good idea - the electronics gurus will have a better opinion on that.  IMO, better to get a fresh rechargeable battery (and allow it to charge before using), or even better to replace it with a BCR - then you can forget about it.

@Micro posted:

We also have a Trainmaster V and what is either a A-90 or Q-75 transformer.

Is that on the list of approved transformers in the manual?  If not, use one that is.

Could we have fried something by having the wires backwards (the U-post going to the outer instead of the center rail, or vice versa) the very first time we powered it up? My dad doesn't think so, since it is AC, but I'm worried we fried something by not checking the track wiring before powering it up.

That won't kill it.

Suggest finding someone local who has a proper transformer and is willing to help.  Look in the TCA or LCCA directory if you're a member (IMO, that's a really good reason for joining one of those organizations), or find a local 3 rail club.

The reset and startup procedures for PS are really touchy.  Until you hear the "3 clanks of death", there's still hope.

The compatibility list of transformers says this about Trainmaster.

@Mallard4468 posted:

As mentioned by others, the original battery (likely bad) is rechargeable - not sure that using a regular battery is a good idea - the electronics gurus will have a better opinion on that.  IMO, better to get a fresh rechargeable battery (and allow it to charge before using), or even better to replace it with a BCR - then you can forget about it.

Suggest finding someone local who has a proper transformer and is willing to help.  Look in the TCA or LCCA directory if you're a member (IMO, that's a really good reason for joining one of those organizations), or find a local 3 rail club.

The reset and startup procedures for PS are really touchy.  Until you hear the "3 clanks of death", there's still hope.

The manual says

The ProtoSound® battery is a special NiCad 7-cell, 8.4v battery - NOT the 6-cell, 7.2v battery found in most convenience stores. The 6-cell NiCad is NOT recommended for use with ProtoSound® applications. Replacement ProtoSound® batteries are available from MTH ProtoSound Electronics at 7020 Columbia Gateway Drive, Columbia, MD 21046. A standard 9v
alkaline battery can be substituted as a temporary fix, but since alkaline batteries can’t take a charge, it will eventually wear down. Regardless, it should give you a week to a couple of months use....

I'm not altogether clear what a BCR is, but there is a local hobby store I have to drive past on the 19th.  Maybe they'll let me use their track to test this.

This is our first PS1/QSI (and MTH) engine, so there's a learning curve on our end, it seems.
We'll check other transformers.  I believe we have a Lionel Type 4050, 150W Type V, the aforementioned "transformer with overload light" and a few other old ones.

FWIW, most 9V NiMh batteries are 7 cell nowadays, they are a proper battery for the task.  Remember, that manual was written in the 1990's long before NiMh became the standard battery chemistry for rechargeable batteries.

A BCR is just supercaps in a battery case, they replace the 9V battery and never need to be replaced.

Do NOT use a primary (alkaline) battery in these, it can damage the charging circuit.

BCR is a brand name which stands for Battery Component Replacement. Like John said, they are capacitor components that can be used instead of the NiCad rechargeable battery. Available online from its maker, https://www.jandwelectronics.com/bcr

Some hobby shops stock them as well.

I also assume you followed MTH’s instructions about starting up original Protosounds locomotives, with the throttle set at less than 10 volts before hitting the direction button to take it out of reset.

@Jim R. posted:

BCR is a brand name which stands for Battery Component Replacement. Like John said, they are capacitor components that can be used instead of the NiCad rechargeable battery. Available online from its maker, https://www.jandwelectronics.com/bcr

Some hobby shops stock them as well.

Thank you folks very much!  I appreciate the information.

@Jim R. posted:

I also assume you followed MTH’s instructions about starting up original Protosounds locomotives, with the throttle set at less than 10 volts before hitting the direction button to take it out of reset.

What direction button?
None of our transformers, to the best of my knowledge, have such a (working) button?  We do have a Postwar (Prewar?) Direction/Sound 2-button controller (167?) but did not have it hooked up.  Prior to the last 2 times we've set up the train, we've not ever used a direction button; last night we were just fading the transformer as best we could to follow the Goose's instructions.

Another tip regarding the BCR - best to buy either direct from J&W or a local hobby store.  Some sellers on ebay and Amazon charge inflated prices.  A BCR should cost a little over $20.

Protosound engines, along with modern locomotives from MTH and Lionel, are susceptible to problems from short circuits and electrical spikes.  Suggest searching the forum for threads on fast-acting circuit breakers, BCR, and TVS.  These 3 things provide cheap protection.  There are a lot of ways to fry an engine - don't ask how I know this. 

@Mallard4468 posted:

Another tip regarding the BCR - best to buy either direct from J&W or a local hobby store.  Some sellers on ebay and Amazon charge inflated prices.  A BCR should cost a little over $20.

Protosound engines, along with modern locomotives from MTH and Lionel, are susceptible to problems from short circuits and electrical spikes.  Suggest searching the forum for threads on fast-acting circuit breakers, BCR, and TVS.  These 3 things provide cheap protection.  There are a lot of ways to fry an engine - don't ask how I know this.

Thank you!

Yes, I had been casually looking for a circuit breaker for model trains and had not found any; I will search more diligently!

I am entirely unfamiliar with TVS (transient voltage suppressor?) but will look into it.

" last night we were just fading the transformer as best we could to follow the Goose's instructions."

The direction button on my transformer interrupts the power to the train. Instructions say to press the direction button for 1 second.    Since you don't have the direction button don't try to "fade" the power, try turning the power off for 1 second and then back on.  

With no direction button, you’ll have to try Ward’s approach. Again, you have to start up at under 10 volts to take original Protosounds out of reset, regardless of what transformer you use.

Yes, the battery might be the issue, and if it is old it should be replaced regardless, but from your initial description, the behavior of your locomotive is exactly what happens when you try to shift from start up to forward when more than 10 volts are running through the rails.

Yes you need a rechargeable battery or the charging circuit will try to charge a non-rechargeable battery and ruin the circuit. The method of operation is with your A or Q transformer is with the Goose on the track, turn the power all the way up and then back down with the throttle knob, but not off, until you hear the air release sound then turn off just for a brief second then back on. It should now run. With only a 167 controller you can operate the horn, but not the bell and station call out.

Well, we got an MTH Camelback (30-1142-1 RK Reading Camelback #650 L&T) running (with lights and sounds) via a Lionel Type 1041 Transformer--fed from a Powerstat 116.

After much fiddling and a new battery, we got this Goose running (some/most of the time; there seems to be a bad connection!) using this same setup.

Thank you all for your help!

I have a further question:
We now have a K-Line Powerchief 120W transformer for the outer loop, but I've been sort of looking for a PS1/PS2-compatible controller for the inner loop. We just purchased a starter set that came with a "ac1803000" transformer & speed controller.  Will this work with those early PS1/QSI/DCRU systems?  It is a pure sine-wave or chopped sine-wave transformer?
Can the speed controller be used with other transformers?
If I purchase a late 90s/early 2000s MTH RTR set (for example 30-4018-1 or 30-4055-2 (with PS2)), would that transformer/remote work with this engine?

Thank you all!

I'll revise my last statement. You can get all the features with just a 167 controller. When in neutral, with the voltage low press the whistle button and the Goose will announce like 'water stop' and 'end of the line for the RGS', 'Overnight stop in Deloris' and several others with a thunderstorm in the backround. It will take a little playing around with to get used to, but it is all possible with just a whistle button.