MTH PS3 PRR K4 is a winner

When you say "scale wheel" do you mean 80" drivers?  Good for MTH!

On the other hand, if it goes around corners like that, it cannot have scale cylinders, tailbeam, and tender spacing.

"Scale Wheel" is MTH's term for the version that has scale size flanges and NMRA gauge. Yes, they are built from the 3 rail models and likely don't have every detail to scale. I could honestly care less though. It will run on 2 rail or 3 rail track with AC/DC/DCC/DCS power. It has a very good loud sound system, and the smoke system is amazing.

I didn't get out the scale ruler, and I likely never will. I have an 80/20 rule that I adhere to in my modeling. I am satisfied with "good enough". I have tight curves to contend with in my house so these models that do contain some 3 rail compromises are really the only way I'm going to get to run them in 2 rail in my space. The alternative would be to buy an accurate brass model for 3x (or more) the price that has no sound, no DCC, no LED lights, no smoke, and won't run on the tighter radius curves that I will have.

I am very happy with it. I know I am in the minority, but I am fine with some 3 rail style compromises - it allows me to actually run it in my space vs. having a shelf queen. I'll post some photos later tonight.

That's good news that it works well jonnyspeed. I'm looking forward to getting an N&W J.

My thinking as well. Looking forward to those photos!

Actually, I am that way too - there are a lot of things I overlook on models - window arrangements on passenger cars, for instance, or where the handrails end on Diesels.  The PRR K4 is, in my opinion, a thing of beauty, and the MTH boiler casting seems to be pretty good.  We did convert one to scale size drivers and cylinders.  I thought maybe MTH had corrected the drivers on the new models.

Congrats!

There are guys that spend tons of money trying to just get there.

I have a MTH Pacific that had a Wow factor when I got it. It retains that pleasure every time I run her. I have engines that cost four times more and don't do that.

 I don't need to learn what's wrong with her "details".

Jonathan Im glade to hear your enjoying your K4. I to would like to have a couple of MTH's scale wheeled steamers, I have two that need converting, but my list of convertions needing doing is growing to long. So of the shelf is good right now. At the top of the list would be an Erie Triplex, what do you think my chances are that MTH might run them in two rail???? Here's my Nickel Plat waiting in line for conversion.    cTr.......     (Choose the Right)

The latest MTH version is likely unchanged bob, probably upgraded with PS3 and not retooled to fix the dimentional issues in the castings.  I quit buying scale wheels mainly because of that.  

Unfortunately, I doubt you will see MTH upgrade any existing tooling for scale wheels if it didn't already come that way. It is just too much of an investment for a small market IMHO. I was hoping to see the PRR S1 offered with scale wheels this time around. No such luck. I think the next catalog will tell a lot about MTH's intentions for O in general going forward.

As I stated above, I don't need a model that is accurate in each dimension. I'm not a rivet counter. We all have our own threshold of what compromises we are and are not willing to live with. I am fine with these MTH models. They are toys that are meant to run. They represent the prototype well enough for me. The more expensive brass models don't have the features I want and won't run in my space so I see it as a good trade-off.

Unless you are running Proto:48 Live steam that is coal/oil fired, then you are making compromises too. Even then, it wouldn't sound like the prototype. It just comes down to personal taste as to what compromises you are willing to accept. Between MTH and Scott Mann I have plenty to choose from for what I want to do. I encourage others to give them a try too.

I agree with your philosophy.  Still, there is a giant visual difference between 72"drivers and 80" drivers.

I agree Sunset is really producing some really good steam and that is where my money would be.

Put a PSC K4 next to an MTH and you'll quickly see.  Less so with some of their other offerings.  The SP Daylight Northern is a good example of an MTH scale wheels model as well as the UP 9000, NW Class A can be fixed with some super detailing for some minor flaws.  Bad examples are PRR J1, K4 and UP big boy where chassis or boiler dimension inaccuracies prevent fixing issues.

jonnyspeed i glad your happy with your purchase thats what makes this hobby fun. you are correct you have to overlook some things or it will drive you crazy. i have several custom built locos by Bill Lenior Charlie Strayer Jerry White Ken Henry and others and there are compromises with these as well. if all our locomotives looked like the prototype they would look like junkers, rusty dented bad paint etc. yet on here there is always critics trying to take someones fun out of their hobby by telling you all the problems with what makes you happy.

As a wise man I know once said "opinions are like *** holes, everyone's got one."  So with the Internet and a public forum you have the good, the bad and the trolls.  Sometimes bad becomes good.  I remember many, many years ago, I started 3 rail, then discovered and grew up 2 rail and one of my early postings was about my shiny new MTH big boy.  I thought it was the cats meow.  Little did I know it had serious dimensional issues.  Do I still have it?  Yes.  Do I regret buying it maybe.  But I had to learn the hard way that the product was not so "scale" as I thought it should have been.  Expensive lesson to learn.  

If there are no product reviews or someone doesn't point out serious flaws, not the type that nit picks or rivet counts, but the type that has merrit then why bother 2 rail at all?  May was well stay 3 rail if every thing is so "uncompromising" and beautiful in what ever some manufacturers decide to give us.  Of course there are compromises, 2 rail O, P48, everything will but through open dialog some of us learn.  I certainly did, a few expert modelers here have helped me be better informed and to make better choices.  Tastes change over time so I always take the good and the bad.  Trolls on the other hand mainly go on to entertain or not.

That MTH Bigboy gained some company in the form of MTH 9000, SS FEF and Key challenger.  Of them all they Key challenger is my favorite followed by the FEF.  Monster puller and beautiful while doing it-monstrous beauty.

FYI, I also was duped into the MTH K4 before I knew better.  Who knew scale wheels was not so scale and I had choices when buying 2 rail models.   Years ago I did not but now I do and it's thanks open dialog here.  Almost a decade later I'll be looking for a bigboy to model the UP restoration effort and will hopefully be looking at a few choices.

I suppose I should apologize.  Never occurred to me that folks might not want to know what is wrong with a favorite model.  I am trying to think of a way that would insulate folks from such information and still allow a moderate amount of discussion - I have no way of knowing that a modeler is decidedly not interested in knowing such things unless he/ she says so in the first post.

If you want feedback, but do not wish to know anything that would detract from your enjoyment, just say so - I shall try to honor that.

Feedback is absolutely essential to a forum. Problems arise when feedback is given with shades of condescendence. Point things out, but do so politely. I think Bob has been tactful.

However, something like this happened to me with my MTH NYC F7, after 3 years of its release a forum member kept repeatedly pointing out a mistake in the paint job that almost everyone knew about it and was already discussed. But the way it was stated was rather rude, as in between lines was saying that no matter what the set was worthless. Wanting nothing to do with that discussion, I made a comment about King Kong's sex life. While the comment was pretty dirty, I did not offend anyone. The comment was removed. Funny how language works.

This is issue is also tied to the fact of wether you own the piece in question. If you do own it, feel free to be as harsh on the model as you wish. Do so in first person. If you don't own it, measure your words and criticism. You may hurt someone's feelings. This hobby is expensive and making someone feel like they wasted their money is not cool. 

I started with MTH engines myself about 4 years ago, little by little I am educating myself in the amazing universe of trains and modeling. Soon I'll get my first Atlas engines, and later in the future I'll look into Sunset and OMI a models. I know I'll never get a perfect engine, but like many people I have a soft spot for MTH. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't be in this hobby, and getting a purple box gets me so excited.

One last thought. I have seen people be aggressive towards new o scalers over accuracy issues. How does anyone want the 2 rail market to grow if all they do is push people away? Be welcoming and educate, without false modesty and the need to be the smartest guy in the room. 

 Criticism is what gets thing fixed here in the hobby. I understand it's usefulness.

When someone is happy with something, then becomes unhappy because of comments, you have to admit the hobby can gain and/or lose at the same time. 

 Having people that know what is right is vital.

Condemning someone's happiness is wrong. Pointing out known flaws for publicity?

Having to pay for a Key engine would keep me out of the hobby.

 Blasting anyone for settling for anything less is ridiculous. My hand rails aren't mounted correctly??? I know it. It does not bother me no matter how many times it gets posted!! If it did bother me, I'd fix it. I'd show how I did it here too for others that it mattered to.

and hence, the compromise. In price too. Why eliminate customers to please a select few. They have other options.