MTH Red Subway Blue Battery

Here's a photo of the MTH blue battery mentioned above:

Arnold

It's not Proto 1, as there were no red colored subway sets that were Proto 1.  (only Proto 1 sets were the silver/Blue D Train (1st MTH subway set ever), it's similar brother, the E train (all silver) and the 1st Chicago set (IIRC, silver with maybe some red detail stripes in a few places).

It's not an early R21 Redbird Proto 2 (1st Proto 2 subway set), as that would have the squared off battery that looks like a 9v.  It's probably later Proto 2 (3 volt system as opposed to 5 v system?).  Proto 3 I think eliminated the battery, right?   If you can see the chipset (not sure if that's possible without what might be unnecessary disassembly of the boards from their mounting), there may well be some marking that says what system it is so you know for sure.

-Dave

After doing more Forum research, it appears that it is very wise to replace Nickel Cadmium batteries with BCRs. 

What confuses me is that the original battery in issue is blue, not white. However, since this blue battery says NI-CD, it must be a nickel cadmium battery that should be replaced, so I will try to do that. If anyone has a different opinion or otherwise wants to chime in, that would be great.

Arnold 

All the references to old white original batteries are the ones for what looks like a 9v battery.  This newer style (I'm pretty sure) was never white.

-Dave

Arnold,

It is a 3-volt PS2 system that requires a BCR2. Is there a connector between the batteries and the circuit board that can be disconnected?

MELGAR

Maybe this red subway is a very old MTH product. Take as look at the photos below:The above photo shows the plastic blue battery sheath that I cut with a scissors and removed.

Now, take a look at the photo below, which shows how the wires are connected to that blue battery. I don't know if the wires are soldered onto the battery, but it looks to me that these wires do not easily snap off like the white and green batteries do, and that I can't just snap on the BCR as I have done in the past. 

I could really use some advice. 

Arnold

As Melgar said, it's BCR2, NOT the original BCR that looks like a 9 volt battery, so you are not trying to "snap" the BCR on.

There other end of those wires on the battery should end in a connector on the board.  The BCR2 will have a similar connector.

-Dave

Is it a good idea to replace this blue battery?

If so, do I need to get BCR2?

Thanks for the input given so far. Arnold 

1) Maybe (it's no where as near as old as all the info you've been reading in other threads about the old white batteries for Proto 1 and early Proto 2)

2) Absolutely (if you decide to change it).  You can't mix the old BCR type with the newer systems using this smaller battery, they require the BCR2.

The respective BCRs were specifically designed to work for the battery they are meant to replace.  They are not interchangeable.

-Dave

Thanks Melgar and Dave.

Do you think it's relatively safe to run this subway with the original blue battery without damaging the powered unit?

I have run it a couple of times without a problem. I power it up at 8 or 9 volts in neutral for 2 or 3 minutes, before I run it. 

I will probably order a BCR2 battery and have it inserted by an expert.

What do you think?

Arnold

I would say its safe to run with the blue battery, looks like it is a ps2 3 volt board and they  were good dependable boards!

Thats the Railking R-12 3 Av EL Shuttle with Proto 2.0.

https://youtu.be/XetMw7vjlLc

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Here's a photo of the MTH blue battery mentioned above:

Arnold

Arnold you have something I have never seen before, a 2.4V NI-CdD. 

All the MTH 2.4V batteries I have seen are these Ni-MH.

And also this special one that came in one of my upgrade kits.

Ron

Today I ordered a BCR2, which will replace the blue battery that came with this late Proto 2 subway. Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Today I ordered a BCR2, which will replace the blue battery that came with this late Proto 2 subway. Arnold

That is the best solution.

MELGAR

This is the same PS2 battery that I just replaced on two of my engines to be on the safe side.  One was in service for 9 years, the other for 13 years.  I would say that they are pretty reliable and last much longer than is predicted.  The BCR2 is a simple plug in replacement, smaller than the original battery.  I held it in the battery holders with a Velcro strap.

If this was the red bird it was PS-2 5V originally and probably had failed.  Many did and where upraded to PS-2 3V which use the 2.4V battery.

Most of them are NiCad and that is fine.  For awhile PS-2 3V upgrade kits used the Nimh type, but if you order a new one from MTH it still is NiCad.

NiCad last 7 plus years in the 2.4V AA format.  G

GGG posted:

If this was the red bird ......

Since Arnold just said it was a "red" subway, I  think there are at least 3-4 candidates.   The original R21 ( P2 as you suggest), I think there was an R17 that was red(?), the R12 mentioned above by Zach, and the one from about a year or 2 ago (R33S, IIRC?) that had the yellow/black striping on some of the car ends.

-Dave