MTH Tin and The Revival of Marx

Electroliner, I like your thinking.  The question would be whether Mike would be able to refrain himself from sticking PS3.75 RevL2.54 etc. etc. in all of it.  

On the other hand, if you were really going to keep it simple, and in the spirit of Louis Marx aim for the economy market and not compete with the high-end stuff, then it might be possible for a 21st century McCoy with moderate capitalisation to gear up a small business and make these right here in the USA?

On the other hand, if it had been profitable, the modern Marx line would probably still be in production....

The only difference I can see as an advantage of MTH over the Flynn Era in terms of moving product is their already established vastly superior marketing power, distribution etc. All of which they already have in hand. I came upon "New Marx" strictly by accident in a hobby shop that carried a small number of examples. I had never read anything in any model railroad publication about it. New Marx? Whats this?  My curiosity got the best of me when I saw how unique their cars were and retro. and I had to go on line to figure out what was going on. I am sure others may have stumbled upon New Marx in the same way whereas MTH has the power of a national podium. I also like the effect of being able to do production here rather than in some distant and unmanageable country, putting their people to work instead of ours. If I had the capital and partners, I think it would be worth a reasonable shot at success as a viable alternative to $500.00 to well over $1,000 tin toys. 

Just a guess here, but I suspect Mike Wolf is currently producing all the tinplate lines he cares to produce.  I don't see another "New Marx" or "New McCoy" being in the future lineup.

One thing I heard Mike Wolf mention was his interest in a possible line of European Tinplate, I suppose he meant Hornby or Marklin Reproductions.. 

Allan

I generally agree but also have in mind, that the market as it is, is pretty well saturated between Railking, Legacy etc and he has gone over the pond to expand production in Europe which is a new market. Then there are the costs of doing business at a distance. I think entry level tin closer to home is a new market here and of course he has a well known soft spot for tin. It seems like a missed opportunity in the current economy seeking affordable alternatives that is under serviced and not taken advantage of.

I agree, but keep in mind that other than for the few of us Marx nuts (a limited market), what you'd really be competing with, in terms of the average consumer, is a lot of very inexpensive plastic HO stuff.

We would need someone with some experience and backgound.  Would Joe Mania be interested?  Who else out there is currently making tinplate on a small scale?  Where's Kurt from USA Track?  80% of Marx is one breadloaf-shaped tin pressing, with different lithography. 

I've got a feeling there's a reason this isn't being done, and it has to do with basic addition and subtraction.  You're right that someone as big as MTH could make it work because of economy of scale, but it would probably be a marginally profitable sideline, so what's the motivation?  It would take someone like the Flynns or you or me to do it as a labor of love.  

It worked for the Flynns because Debbie worked for a metal-stamping plant, and they ran the Marx stuff as a a sideline for her.  And Jim is a graphic artist, did the designs himself on his computer.  In-house, little overhead, family operation, nobody got paid. Like the McCoys.  Cottage industry.

A new line of simple, stamped lithographed tin trains with a real honest to ozone mechanical e-unit would be way cool! One concession to today would be to make a copy of the Marx double reduction motor so there's no issues with modern track and switches.

Joe Bender has most of the New Marx tooling. Not much of a web site. He mostly sells at shows around Chicago. To my knowledge he only has the litho for four cars that can be ordered as boxcars, pierced as stock cars and your choice of auto or tab & slot couplers.  At least he was ale to replenish Grossman with some parts he had run out of. I talked to him early last year when I ordered mine and he had plans of new rolling stock, but no timetable etc.

http://www.joestrains.com/

Steve

Steve, thanks very much for that information.  You're right in that the website is, shall we say, rather minimalist.  He has a decent price on the 4-boxcar set though.

the modern Marx line suffered from a few things that kept me from buying any.

1) electric motors were not coasting drives.

this was a absolute turnoff to me as far as their locomotives.

...wish they had made some clockworks.

2) the car graphics left a lot to be desired.

roofs had little or no detail.

ladders and hand rungs were 2-dimensional; no shadowing/ depth.

...they had little to no character.

i do have a KLine "333" (ATSF roadname).

if nobody is making that locomotive anymore, that's a shame.

cheers...gary

Interesting thoughts, but a resurrection of old Marx might have limited appeal mostly to us old duffers. I would like to think that the Marx tradition of cheap but fun trains could be brought back, preferably in lithographed metal.

If inexpensive lightweight model-toys of some of the modern high-speed trains were produced to run fast on O-gauge track, they could have a widespread appeal to a worldwide toy market. Battery power could make them fast, lightweight and inexpensive. The possibilities are interesting.

This is my own cheap lightweight battery-power speed demon, capable of 160 scale mph. A shell could be made fancy with printed graphics; different shells could be made to create a different appearance on the same chassis.  

This one would benefit from streamlined styling. I fabricated it on the spur of the moment with glossy cardboard and a hot glue gun, after I developed a very successful powered chassis from available spare parts.

Ace

Your ingenuity came up with a model that reminds me of my journey through the London Underground for some reason. Mind the Gap! remains stuck in my head. That dark red color of the below picture might look good as a simple scheme. 

I have a late production Marx battery set arriving today and it will be interesting to see the mechanics of the engine ( gearing versus direct drive) as well as what it's average speed is without pulling under a load and what sort of power it does have in terms of pulling. If your car a speedster...could it be capable of pulling a trailer to balance it out?

Bruce

Electroliner,

I agree MTH would be the best possible candidate to reproduce the MARX tin trains.

Hopefully, they might consider making a set to test the market appeal?

Thanks,

Phil  

I obtained one of the Marx battery powered 0-4-0s years ago.  Even though the motor reminds me of those in the cheap Japanese toys of the 1950s, I was surprised at what it would pull.  The batteries help in the weight/traction department, I guess.  It's still running.

TrainsRMe,

This one has no reciprocating rods and so I do have spares and might try to retrofit them. Since it is simple I was mulling over repainting it into the classic green and white of the Southern RR and I have no plans to resell it. All this discussion regarding speed makes me wonder if there was some simple way to slow them down. I know that I always envied late production Hornby windups for their comparatively sophisticated speed governors. I don't think a battery engine ever had one at least those who did not use battery powered track but rather carried the power directly in the engine. Whats interesting to me is these battery trains represent the first crude application of the same principles used in quite a few G gauge engines nowadays...As far as Marx revival, I think it's one of those cases where the concept seems counterintuitive but simplicity and cost might win the day, an area that Lionel has entered into with several lines for primarily young kids, and I think if MTH kept it simple, colorful and relatively inexpensive there would be enough of us duffers to make it profitable. After all, we support their other offerings...even though it's reached a saturation point and they have entered the European market to continue their sustainable growth. I suspect its not as risky as it seems to be.

Bruce

i wish i had the figures...

1 - what did it cost to hire a person to bend metal in 1953?

2 - what does it cost to hire a (union) person to bend metal in 2013?

I was never happy with the NewMarx because it was different from the original 3/16,

but, from what is reported above, probably best they could do as a mom and pop operation, and for that they deserve credit.  I did not want roadnames to be duplicated, or even styles of cars....but two or three bottom hoppers vs. the four, double door boxcars instead of single, reefers with reefer doors, etc.  I DID want the cars to be made the same way with like details, and they were not, so I bought only

a couple of the flatcars.  I and many others were in the York Marx meet when Flynn came in and announced he was going to make NewMarx.  Time sure does fly, and now

the Flynns are out of it and it has come and gone. I think the market was tested and

failed.  A lot of us, who lived it,  would like there to be Marx identical trains made, but for a while there, it looked like nobody would be making traditional electric trains, including Lionel.  I don't think there is a growing youth market with an interest in these simple trains, and that is what would be required to sustain production.

Bruce, my battery-power transit car now has a diode string with DIP switches which gives different speeds in steps, from slow to very fast. Also, with the rubber band drive, the gearing can be modified by changing the size of the drum on the driving axle, which is built up with tape. It can pull one or two of the lightweight free-rolling Lionel flatcars with fast-angle wheels. Eventually I would like to make an identical but unpowered trailer car or two. Originally it ran slower on a single AA rechargeable battery; now it has a similar size 4v rechargeable battery (salvaged from a laptop computer) for more speed capability.

I've made a different battery-power loco on a 4-wheel Marx metal flatcar chassis; a vertical shaft motor with worm gear drives one axle directly, also made with free salvaged parts. It can pull a few Marx tin cars on flat track at a leisurely speed. The improvised box cab shell needs a graphics overlay.

I would like to think that an enterprising manufacturer could make similarly inexpensive but fun trains with simple engineering.

Ace

That is some workmanship and looks like it was a neat project, especially to successfully complete with the speed control you designed. The other reminds me of a early Boxcab. I think tin plate brings out the creative or love of tinkering that so many of us do. I am on the finishing touches of doing a Southern inspired, four color rework of that 0-4-0 battery engine. Another fun project and I agree that simple mechanisms and construction still has a place in the market, especially in the state of the world economy such that it is. While some have suggested the Flynn's got out of the business for poor sales, I don't know if anyone knows that to be the case. I could be wrong but I seem to recall that the company for them as a man and wife team became too consuming, but I am not sure. My memory may be playing tricks on me. I know they have a tinplate oriented store with a website and it seems they moved to Texas. Have you seen Tinplate Girl's website? She has a lot of good material tips etc as well as supplies..if you haven't been there, a visit is worth some spare time.

http://tinplategirl.com/

Heres one of her projects which reminds me of the Marx version of course. I might try the steam shovel plan she has which would look way cool. Do you have any videos of your car running?

Bruce

On the other hand, if it had been profitable, the modern Marx line would probably still be in production....

the modern Marx line suffered from a few things that kept me from buying any.

When HO came into the toy train world in the fifties and sixties, Marx faded into the sunset.  The HO being prototype, many model railroaders when into scale and junked their Marx or put it into the attic to rust.  Being a conservative person, I saved my Marx and got into HO.  The transition was made in 1960 while I was in college.  Well this forum and finding my Marx has gotten me back into Tin Plate just a few weeks when I found a Commordoe clock work engine.  My friend James touched up the engine

and am now into beauty of Marx.

Off the subject, 70 years in the morning, the Santa Fe woke me up and I watched the first train start off my 3rd birthday. Those were the day for railfanning.

Al