MTH Triplex Help

6.5 amps is not good. Either the front or tender smoke unit sounds like it has a shorted resistor. Disconnect the front one first and see how much current, then the rear. The last I heard no 3/2 boards until 2022.

Are you comfortable with taking engines apart? I think you could test the resistor on the smoke unit. I did it on one of my locomotives but I'm not familiar with the innards of the Triplex.

thanks guys, yes no problem working on the engine and electronics. I just have not run across this type of issue before. I will test the smoke units and get resistance from the heating resistor. Will report back. I appreciate all the help and advise!!!!

Thanks Dave

@Chuck Sartor is right though. You could just disconnect it first and see if you the amp draw is still enormous. Then check the resistor to be sure.

Will check tomorrow. I also found the speaker had the metal shavings on the magnet. Replaced it with a new 16 ohm MTH speaker. Sounds are good as well now. Will disconnect smoke units and plug in one at a time to monitor current. Thanks for the help. Will provide an update tomorrow.

thank you. Dave

In case it assists I will note the following:

(1) The only MTH smoke unit ever to fail on me was the rear/tender unit on my Triplex. I had it repaired by an MTH service pro and he was unable to determine why it had gone bad; "it just happens" he said. But I didn't have the overload problem you do; the unit simply stopped functioning. The only other issue with this engine was that the front smoke unit was misaligned with the stack right out of the box, which led to my opening up the loco and point (2) below. The tender smoke unit on mine is small and easier to get to than the one at the front of the boiler. Might be a good idea to try disconnecting that one first?

(2) There is a driveshaft between the rear of the loco and the tender, to drive the powered wheels/running gear on the tender. From memory the manual shows how to disengage it, which I found I had to do to get the boiler shell off,  but it is more than a little tricky because the engine as a whole is very heavy. (It's actually easier to put back together than disassemble!) You need to be pretty careful about this assembly because I can see that it would be liable to break if either the loco or tender slipped out of your hands or a cradle while you are working on it.

Mine is a PS2 from the second (or maybe even third) production run of this engine, c. 2008. I was not aware that any of them had 5 volt boards - that's a new one on me.

@Dave S. posted:

Will check tomorrow. I also found the speaker had the metal shavings on the magnet. Replaced it with a new 16 ohm MTH speaker. Sounds are good as well now.

That's a good call. I had to replace my speaker as well. Apparently that can fry things. I don't really know the details though.

Triplex's were always 3 volts. Th first ones used a AA battery pack.

@Chuck Sartor posted:

Triplex's were always 3 volts. Th first ones used a AA battery pack.

Nope. First edition from 2001 was PS2 5V: 20-3069-1 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)

I checked both smoke units and disconnected. Still at 4.5 amps when just powered up on the track. I did notice that the 330uf 35v cap has a slight rise on the top of it. I have ordered a new capacitor for it and will continue to check after I replace it.

Thanks everyone.  Worst case if anyone has a replacement 3 to 2 kit or conversion kit let me know.             Dave

@Dave S. posted:

I checked both smoke units and disconnected. Still at 4.5 amps when just powered up on the track. I did notice that the 330uf 35v cap has a slight rise on the top of it. I have ordered a new capacitor for it and will continue to check after I replace it.

Thanks everyone.  Worst case if anyone has a replacement 3 to 2 kit or conversion kit let me know.             Dave

I am not competent/savvy enough to say whether that potentially blown cap is your problem, but I wish you luck in getting this resolved. An amp draw like that on powering up suggests something other than a drive train problem, which is another issue I've had with my Triplex.

If you have to go down the board replacement route, this MTH fellow has been able to supply me with parts in the past and certainly knows what he is doing: http://www.rayman4449.com

My dad recently bought a used 5v triplex.  We replaced the 9v battery (surprised to find it in the boiler) and when it fired up , produced a low crummy sound. We found a deteriorated speaker.   We purchased a replacement speaker for the 5v board and it sounded great initially, but once shutdown would not start up again.   We proceeded with replacing the 5v board with a 3v.  We didn’t have a conversion board, instead we removed plug receptacles from the pins of the old 5v board and transferred them to the new 3v upgrade board allowing it be almost a direct swap, except for eliminating the plug for 9 volt battery and replace with the AA pack.  I think the whole thing took just about hour.   I think the hardest part of this entire process was reconnecting drive shaft and trying to align the tender grab rails to slide into the holes on the frame with out bending them or scratching the tender frame.

Ray (http://www.rayman4449.com/) lives not far from me and he has been excellent to work with for parts and questions on upgrades, I definitely recommend him.

Mike

@Dave S. posted:

I checked both smoke units and disconnected. Still at 4.5 amps when just powered up on the track. I did notice that the 330uf 35v cap has a slight rise on the top of it. I have ordered a new capacitor for it and will continue to check after I replace it.

Thanks everyone.  Worst case if anyone has a replacement 3 to 2 kit or conversion kit let me know.             Dave

If you breathe new life into a 5V, you’ll be my hero,…usually it’s curtains for them when they go stupidville,….

Pat

Thanks so much for the information and help. Yes, I fear the 5 volt board my be on its way out soon. Runs well now I will take your advise and reach out to rayman4449. Thanks everyone.

Dave

i have a different problem-my 5016 triplex p2 that i purchased new in 2002 will not move-no lights-sound-smoke-no movement either conventionally or with dcs system but when applying power using conventionally,j i hear a low sounding click coming from the rear of the tender-once only-i don't know if its the power board or the bcr are defective-any suggestions

Well, a 2002 has the original 5V PS/2 board.  OTOH, the click with power-on is a good sign.  However, if it no longer does that with power-on, that's a bad sign!

You should be able to add it and run it with the DCS even with a bad battery/BCR or charging circuit.  It won't remember anything after shutdown and you'll have to add it again every time.  However, if it's not found at all with the DCS, that's a problem.

your statement of a good sign meaning that the board is not defective but that the bcr is and that if  i change the bcr that i will regain power again

Actually, that's not what I'm saying.  The BCR or charging circuit can be defective.

However, I suspect the board set as you don't get it to wake up at all even in conventional mode with no DCS on the tracks.  While you can't run it without a battery (or BCR) in conventional mode, it will wake up and have sounds and lights.  If it doesn't do that, either the board has no power or it's probably defective.

where is the battery compartment in the triplex-the tender or the engine and what is the process to change it-cannot find anything on line and the manual that came with the engine is very vague-thxs

The battery in the Railking versions is in the tender. The change isn't too difficult. I believe there were 6 screws total on the underside and then a little velcro strap hold the battery in. Not too bad.

Premier 5v version is in the boiler towards the smoke box

Thanks for all the help. I was able to get it up and running now. I replaced the 25v 360 uf cap as well. It was starting to bulge. Runs great and sounds great now. Also replaced the speaker. So happy it’s fully functional now.

Which cap is that?  I don't know of any such cap on the 5V PS/2 boards.  There is a problematic 330uf 35V cap, but replacing that with a 25V cap would be a problem, that's too low a voltage rating!

OK.  So I have a couple of questions...

I just purchased a used Triplex w/ PS2 Item 20-3069-1.  Looks like it was hardly used.

I changed the white battery to a BCR and put it on the track.  The sounds came on, but very garbled.  Within 30 seconds, the engine started pulling high amps and I shut down power immediately.  I noticed a slight burnt smell from the tender.  I opened the tender and the main board smells.  I could not see any obvious failure spots.

So, what are the options?

Do I try to repair the main PS2 board?
Not sure I can get replacement parts from MTH to make this work again???
I know I have to change the speaker as you can see it has failed.

Should I change over to ERR?  If so, which one would be best?  I saw a post where Alex did a conversion to ERR some years ago.

• John, as this has two smoke units (one in the engine and one in the back of the tender), do I need to install two Super-Chuffer units?
• John, would using your chuff generator be better than the internal one from ERR given this has three sets of drivers? Or should I wire a separate chuff switch for the rear drivers and tie that to the smoke unit on the tender?
• Do I need to replace the rear coupler with one that is compatible with the ERR?
• I would guess I would have to change all the lighting?  (please confirm)
• What ERR sounds would be appropriate?

Should I change over to a Legacy board from an articulated engine (purchased from Lionel parts) instead of the ERR?

• Would I get better sounds for this engine compared to the ERR option?

I am more concerned about doing what is "best" to get some enjoyment out of this.  The cost of the change is secondary.

Any guidance would be great.

Dave

@davegg

That speaker looks absolutely terrible, I would not have even powered it up until that was replaced.

This is a 5 Volt PS2 board, when they go bad, replacing it is really your only option. They are known for premature failure and the difficulty of component level repair on these makes the job almost impossible.

The ERR route is a bit more pricey than getting a drop-in PS32 replacement board. The PS32 is the route I'd go with but you need to work with an ASC tech to get those.

There's a tech referred to higher up in this thread who can help you: rayman4449 - check the earlier posts. This will get you out of the 5v failure area, which is notorious.

I really don't see how ERR is an option with this model, but the MTH components are still available, which is a far more practical option.

BTW - did you try running this before putting in the BCR? Did it work? It's better to check these things first, in the as delivered condition. I have learned that with brand new models.

Thanks for the comments.

Email set to Ray.

I also sent an email to Alex as he has done a conversion using ERR.

After thinking about this a bit longer, I wonder if I should try the impossible and attempt a board repair, if it is just a bad cap or two???

Hopefully I will hear something back.

Keep the comments and suggestions coming.

Dave

I can't help on replacing caps - or whether the ones shown in your photo look blown. As you have asked questions about @gunrunnerjohn products I'll defer to him, in particular as I don't know about using SuperChuffer with a smoke unit not in the loco itself. What I do know is that in your position I'd get a PS3v transplant rather than thinking about a whole new control system.

BTW, it's been some while since I looked at the board in my tender but it's not a 5v model anyway - probably the second release of the Triplex. It's a great engine when running right!

P.S. I assume you used a battery replacement designed specifically for MTH engines - most are designed for TMCC battery replacement and are not compatible with DCS, although whether that would cause a board failure is not something I've experienced. Ray sells the right one for MTH models.

I received an email response from Ray.  He also suggested a PS2 3v upgrade as replacing the entire control system is just that.  He lives relatively close to me (Greater Kansas City area).  I hope that works out.  He did say, this sounds like a classic PS2 5v failure.

One of the remaining question I have to Ray is how the new up graded board handles 2nd smoke unit and the sound file mimicking the 3 sets of drivers.

The capacitor is not the only failure of the ps 2 5-volt board, the boards were pushed beyond their current limits and also sometimes fet's shorted and the two boards are NOT EASLILY separated, IF YOU TURNED UP TO FULL VOLUME the current would be higher than the boards were designed to handle! if you really like the engine I would install a ps 3/2 board change speaker to 4 ohms and removed the old 8.4-volt battery, as ps 3/2 uses super cap no battery required!

Alan

@DaveGG posted:

One of the remaining question I have to Ray is how the new up graded board handles 2nd smoke unit and the sound file mimicking the 3 sets of drivers.

It must be a slave/auxiliary board in the tender that simply powers the smoke unit. I'm sure that there are not two sound systems in this model. Mine is packed away at present and the video I once made of it running is somewhere on a backup drive or I'd show you what it sounds like running.

But, come to think of it, Eric S. did a fine review of the 2016 version (mine is slightly earlier, I think) that showcases the sounds among other great features. In the video the sound system starts up with chuffing at about 25:50, after Eric describes the tender as the best feature. This actually made me think that with an ERR conversion, you could not possibly replicate the very distinctive sounds of this model, including the whistle. So I think that's another pointer to doing the board update:

I have wondered whether Lionel has acquired the tooling for these, but even if they have, I don't see them producing one soon after several MTH releases (even one in HO, but with only one smoke unit). It would be worthy of VL if they did, but being realistic the last MTH version (PS3) probably will stay as the best there is. Good luck with yours!

Alan,
Thanks for the information.  Do you know how the updated board (either PS3 3v or PS3) handle the 2nd smoke unit?

Handcock52,
Thanks for the information.  In my original post to this thread, I included a photo of the PS2 5v board.  It has a black plastic box on it that states "2 SMOKE".  So that is why my continued questions on how the new boards handle the 2nd smoke unit.  Any insight here?

Best, Dave

@DaveGG posted:

Alan,
Thanks for the information.  Do you know how the updated board (either PS3 3v or PS3) handle the 2nd smoke unit?

Handcock52,
Thanks for the information.  In my original post to this thread, I included a photo of the PS2 5v board.  It has a black plastic box on it that states "2 SMOKE".  So that is why my continued questions on how the new boards handle the 2nd smoke unit.  Any insight here?

Best, Dave

I saw that in your photos, but I'm afraid I don't have any insight on this, although I am absolutely sure you are in expert hands (Ray). I don't think that there is another MTH engine like this, but I do have an MTH UP #80 coal turbine with 3 smoke units and 2 sound systems (an upgrade from PS1) that still works after more years than I can remember any more. Phil at TAS did the conversion; years later Ray supplied a spare PS3/2 board. I think (but don't know for sure) that the MTH sound files actually contain the multiple smoke unit controls.

In the case of the Triplex, the tender smoke just comes on when the engine starts up, and chuffing co-ordinates with the loco (see Eric's video).

Thanks for the video.

Could someone confirm that in the PS2 versions of this locomotive, the tender chuffs in sync with the main smoke unit in the engine all the time, however in the PS3 version, the tender smoke chuffs in and out of sync and follows the in and out of sync chuff sounds as shown in Eric's review of the 2016 PS3 version (from what I could tell)?

Thanks.

OK, so I am not getting much feedback.  Maybe a simpler question...

Has anyone upgraded a MTH Triplex PS2 system to a PS3?

If so, what was involved in that conversion?

Thanks,
Dave