MTH Two Rail Help, Please

exactly what Dave said.   The only thing I would add is that in 2 rail, I found stronger DCS signals if you feed the electrical blocks from the end of the block, rather than the middle

Dave and John, thanks.

I want to model "real" O scale and, as a total newbie to DCC, would like to avoid disastrous mistakes. It sounds like an MTH loco would be safe enough.

Eliot:

MTH does a 3/2 offering. Where some of the offerings can be easily converted to 2 rail, or the other way.   This Russian decapod is a 3/2 offering.  It involves wheel isolation to do the two rail feature.  Interesting concept, I assume, save for different sized wheel flanges, MTH has one production line for either 3 rail or 2 rail locomotives.

I'm no expert on DCS, I believe it is designed to work on AC or DC.  Please check with the DCS forum group.

In my experience, the 2-rail and 3-rail engines have been using the same sound sets. And I definitely concur with John about how to feed the track blocks. Feed them from the ends and it dramatically reduces feedback.

The Proto-2 2-rail engines are sensitive to polarity; the Proto-3 engines are not, plus they'll use DCC. If you want to do any DCS, a simple switch between DCC and DCS will let you use both systems. I don't know what effect, if any, putting DCS on the right rail of the standard gauge track would have on the DCC signal on the imbedded narrow gauge track if the left rail is common to both systems.

I just read this. I agree with what's been posted. If I can be of any help, let me know.

Since you already have the DCC system, try a new MTH PS3. The same sounds are inside each model as are in three rail.

 I have struggled to get DCS to get along with TMCC signal on the rails. Each one is strong on it's own. I don't know how well it works for the S scale group? Carl T has some great help there. Me, I gave up. I was going to add it overhead.

 I have an old prodigy DCC system I keep for testing decoders. I should try it someday with a newer MTH PS3 engine, and see how well they do.

Cannot wait for command control battery power.  My aviation buddies are starting to tell me about tiny batteries that can run a Lycoming starter motor.  Some are even safe to charge indoors.

I don't know why I read so much about guys struggling with the MTH coupler holes. I have a ton of their engines and I have not had a problem. The holes are already tapped for metric screws. They are usually included. I have had to buy a couple though. I wouldn't use brass screws, either.

To all of you nice fellows who have responded with excellent ideas, many thanks.

The OGR Forum is an endless fountain of help and helpful modelers. I am strugglong with the conceptual piece of the next layout. My initial plan was to copy the HOn3 San Juan Central in O scale but, since I have the space, I am thinking of adding an O scale interchange.

This will be my last layout before I go to the Great Roundhouse in the sky. I want to be sure it is my best.

Scrapiron

Good comments above lots of detail.

You might be interested in what MTH had to say when they first released the Proto 3 system for us on 2 rail engines;

from the MTH website;

Since Proto-Sound 2.0's introduction in the Spring of 2000, a few subtle changes have been incorporated into the basic board design including; a different power supply, the ability to operate on AC or DC power, the inclusion of wireless tethers, flash onboard memory, improved microprocessors and improved sound amplifiers.

Regardless of these changes, a year 2000 Proto-Sound 2.0 equipped locomotive runs exactly the same way under the DCS Digital Command Control system as a Proto-Sound 2.0 board built in 2010. You simply put 'em on the track and run 'em.

And so it is with Proto-Sound 3.0. Like the different iterations of the Proto-Sound 2.0 boards built over the past decade, new O Gauge Proto-Sound 3.0 equipped locomotives operate exactly the same way as their 2.0 counterparts. This means they will operate together with 2.0 engines on the same track at the same time when controlled by DCS.
They will operate the same with any compatible conventional AC transformer as 2.0 engines.
They can operate on AC or DC power.
They feature the same conventional control features and include the same command control features.
Most importantly, no new equipment is required to enjoy any feature found inside a Proto-Sound 3.0 equipped locomotive.

Like all evolving technological products, there are a number of new features found inside each Proto-Sound 3.0 equipped locomotive that we believe will continue to ensure that M.T.H. locomotives are the most advanced, most universally compatible and most exciting to operate in all of model railroading.

Chief among these new features is the inclusion of a NMRA Digital Command Control (DCC) receiver. While not a popular command control choice of O Gauge model railroaders, DCC is the dominant command control protocol in other scales, including HO, N, G and 2-Rail O Scale.

By incorporating a DCC receiver into our products, your new Proto-Sound 3.0 equipped locomotive can be operated in command control mode using any DCC controller available today. There are dozens of DCC controllers available from a large number of DCC controller manufacturers. Many of these devices can control all 28 different DCC functions found in every M.T.H. Proto-Sound 3.0 equipped locomotive.

Eliot,

Your On3 Locos are probably going to be beautiful scale pieces so, I think you could do much better buying a nice brass standard gauge loco or two with scale valve gear and great detail. That way you can keep your power solutions the same. There is some high quality ready to lay proto narrow /standard gauge 3 rail track available.

IMHO blending MTH with your narrow gauge would just not be the same quality to quality.

Best Regards, Ron H

Elliot,

Just wanted to say welcome aboard (2 rail) and like bob2, I think RC battery is the way of the future. However you go, good luck! Do not overlook the 2 rail secondary market. If you can get to a 2 rail show (there's a good one in Strasburg, PA) you will enjoy yourself and be amazed at what you see.

Simon

Elliot now you're talking!  you will never regret going into 2 rail. i would look at used brass depending on what you are looking for and then add dcc. i'm selling off my 3 rail to go back to 2 rail.

I don't understand this comment "Cannot wait". I went to a 2 rail show 10 years ago. It was the old Wind Gap show in PA. There was a guy there selling RC/battery control for O scale. He said most of his customers were G gauge but the system did fit into all of the larger O scale locomotives. It worked well but I didn't care for the generic sounds or the hand held controller. Just my opinion.

If it was available 10 years ago then I am sure it is available now and with much better batteries too.

Tam Valley Depot sells it:

http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/...drailcomponents.html

And this website has it for all the scales smaller than O:

http://www.s-cab.com/

So no need to wait any longer. Jump right on Bob, the water is fine!

Wireless/DCC battery power is still sad.  The garden railroaders are the pushing force behind it.  The HO and N crowd would like it but they still have space problems if not using separate power cars for batteries that last very long.

While they all tout DCC standards there are NO standards for wireless and battery power.  Are the Tam Valley, CVP, S-cab, NCE and the QSI systems all interoperable?  I couldn't even get the QSI system to work with itself.  And I wasn't alone, no one I know could get it to work.  I've been told, but do not know personally, that the none of the systems are interoperable with each other except the CVP receivers with the NCE transmitters as well as the CVP transmitters.  THE reason I decided to go to the NMRA in Portland this summer rather than the Chicago Meet this week is to see if the NMRA is intending to work on any interoperability standards or extensions to the DCC standards.

Eliot you can model the East Broad Top in Narrow Gauge and interchange with the Pennsy and have the best of both worlds which justifies the GG-1.

You know how it goes, take your time and see as many 2 rail layouts as you can.  See what you like and what you don't.  Planning things out will help a bunch as I'm sure you know.  I am starting over in my case because things just didn't flow the way I wanted....now had I planned a bit better...well you know...  I love 2 rail and you will as well.

Thank you very much rdunniii. I have my answer. In my post above I was not trying to be a wise guy or a smart-Alec. I admit I don't know a lot about battery/RC systems and after reading your post I dislike them even more. I agree with Bob and the others that these systems have some really great pros but there are some cons too. I for one am not willing to rip out the electronics of all my locomotives to install ANY new system not just Battery/RC. The main reason is due to cost but now I have an additional reason of the lack of standards and poor performance. It would mean a huge amount of less money to spend for me to just go through the pain of wiring and track cleaning than to switch to battery/RC. Maybe for folks with smaller fleets it is a good option. Anyway, I see and understand what Bob is waiting for. I hate to be a negative Nellie but I think that Bob and Simon have a long wait ahead of them.

Eliot, I gather from the above posts that you are considering doing some 2 rail? Well, you had an excellent model railroad in 3 rail so I am sure that whatever you do in 2 rail, be it standard or narrow gauge, will be awesome. Welcome to 2 rail! I hope you enjoy it. I do not regret my decision to switch.

I agree with the above sentiment that brass locomotives are better detailed and more accurate to the prototype than the MTH locomotives but with most of them you will have to install your own DCC decoder if you want to run them under DCC with sounds. Also some brass locomotives may need some work to get them to run well. Most run good but some will need some work. If you want something that will run right out of the box then I would say go with the MTH locomotive. I have 3 PS 3.0 locomotives and they all run great. The sounds are exactly the same as what you would get in 3 rail and it has most of the same features. I don't believe us 2 railers get the quillable whistle but that is not a deal breaker for me. You can always add brass locomotives later. I am not against them. I have four brass locomotives that I like very much.

DCC is different than the 3 rail systems. There is more of a learning curve with it due to the fact it was invented over 20 years ago but it isn't hard to learn. With all 3 of my MTH locomotives the only thing I changed was the engines address. I have the same DCC system as you but I didn't get the wireless version. I didn't have the money back then and I regret it. I plan to upgrade to wireless sometime this year. I really like the NCE system and have had no problems or issues with it. Good luck and keep us posted.

Get the re-railers out.

Check out Lex Parker's On3 layout and videos. he is one of the best.