MTH WI-FI Module issues

Bob,

Have you done the following 2 things:

• Updated the firmware in the WIU?
• Updated the DCS App itself?

Doing both has resolved the issues that you're seeing for everyone who has done the two updates.

Barry,

I should have stated that in my original post......Yes, running 5.0 on the TIU/Remotes and 1.1 on the App.

The root issue is being able to run either Var together or either Var and Fixed together. Independently they all work great!!

Bob,

Yes, running 5.0 on the TIU/Remotes and 1.1 on the App.

You need to update the WIU, as well. Updating the TIU to DCS 5.0 is simply "table stakes" for using the DCS App at all.

The 50-1034 was updated at the store last Saturday when I purchased it

Bob G, without going back and reading the entire thread to ascertain your specific problem, I would say that right now my two handheld devices (android) are having no problems addressing locos on any of my 2 Fixed and 4 variable circuits, other than, of course, when the locos move from one TOU's zone to the other's, the super TIU thing..

I am using an IPhone 6 with the $5 app purchased (I deleted and reloaded that today from the App Store). The 50-1034 had the 1.1 firmware loaded at the store when I bought it last week. This was my first post today so I don't have a "history" on this thread.

Bottom line....I have not been able to run either Var together or either Var and Fixed together. Var1 works great by itself. Var2 works great by itself. The Fixed 1 and Fixed 2 tracks work independently & together. Independently they all work great!!

The introduction of either Var track causes all active engines to go "inactive".

Bob,

If you're all up to date, then I cannot see what could be the problem.

I have 3 TIUs with 3 WIUs and multiple channels on each turned on, and have no issues whatsoever using either with an iPad Mini or iPhone 6.

Bob, I had a similar problem before the grand update, when a Fixed 2 would be connected.  IS it just powering on the Var that causes the mass migration to inactive, or does it only happen when you do a read to add the locos that are on the Var?

Have you verified, independently from taking LHS's word, that the WIU has version 1.1?  LuCI will tell you that.

I'll do my own LuCI check tomorrow and report back.......Thanks

Barry & RJR........I re-flashed the firmware this morning. ALL IS WORKING JUST GREAT NOW!!!

The Variable and Fixed tracks are all powered and running trains.

Thanks for the help.

You're welcome.  Glad to have been of some help.

I, too, had no problem setting the wifi up and linking it to the App on my android tablet.  The App found the engines on the layout just fine and the trains ran on time!  UNTIL yesterday.  Now the engines are listed under the inactive file.  When I try to reload them, I get "no new engines".  I've done all the shut downs, restarts, reloads, etc, read and re-read the instuructions and basically started all over.  What am I doing wrong?

I presume you have updated both the WIU and your Android app to the new versions recently available? I'm no expert here (just got mine), but I think the upgrades seem to have fixed the items going inactive for most folks? However, both devices have to be upgraded for the upgrade to work properly.  

On another note, I finally got my wifi Friday and got it all updated and setup on Saturday. Using an ipad I have not had any problems so far. I haven't yet tried everything, but what I have tried seems to be working very well. 

I have found my watchdog signal or lack of signal is somehow related to having my MTH Wifi turned on.  When I power up my TIU normally without my wifi turned on, no problem with the watchdog signal all engines remain silent, but power up the TIU and Wifi and engines will miss the watchdog signal and power up with sound and smoke.  Go figure, any suggestions?  I narrowed it down to this scenario for missing the watchdog signal. 

Do you have the WIU connected to the TIU via the TIU's USB port? If so, the TIU is being powered on as soon as the WIU gets power.

This shouldn't affect things as regards the watchdog signal, however, try powering up the WIU after the rest of the layout has been turned on.

WIU connected to TIU via USB.  I have tried powering WIU after Powering TIU, same result. I first thought it was the Miller Electronic sign but unplugging it made no difference.  Only the WIU being turned on.  I keep trying this WIU plugged unplugged same result.  

When it works properly, which wires are you unplugging and at which end of each wire?

I have the WIU on different remote power outlet that I can turn on separate from TIU, so I only turn on the TIU when it works.  If the WIU is on when I turn on the TIU the engines startup sound, lights and smoke. 

Barry should I have the TIU and WIU power up together on same power source.  I have them separate because I do not use the WIU all the time but instead use my MTH remote plus I do have Legacy engines to run and do not need the WIU.  I have tried turning the TIU and WIU switches on together, same result.  Mystery to me!

I also power my WIU from a different power source so I have the option of having it on or not.  I have also tested with it on the same power source as my TIU with no difference in operation.

Barry I do not use Z4K.  Power to tracks comes from TIU as soon as it is turned on.  I have two channels both fixed in normal mode.  I am running PS2 and PS3 engines.  I do have TMCC and Legacy but this happens with none of these on the track.  I am stumped!

Marty I would not think the order of TIU versus WIU being powered up matters for the watch dog signal but the WIU powered up is blocking somehow my watchdog signal?  Any suggestions? 

Barry and Marty I am running WIU upgrade 1.1.  

As I stated above:

hshill posted:

I have found my watchdog signal or lack of signal is somehow related to having my MTH Wifi turned on.  When I power up my TIU normally without my wifi turned on, no problem with the watchdog signal all engines remain silent, but power up the TIU and Wifi and engines will miss the watchdog signal and power up with sound and smoke.  Go figure, any suggestions?  I narrowed it down to this scenario for missing the watchdog signal. 

Hi HSHILL,

I made some tests, and just as mentioned in other replies above, I can`t reproduce your "watchdog missing" problem either with or without the power turned off on the WIU.

I dig a little bit more, and found one way to reproduce your problem:  If I power the TIU via the "Aux Power Input", and keep this power on,  while cycling all other power (TIU Inputs), I get the symptoms of your "watchdog missing".

So, are you powering your TIU via the "Aux Power Input" ?

Hope this could help.

Daniel

Daniel, I had been using AUX power but stopped, now using only fixed channel 1 for power to TIU.  I do notice the TIU red light coming on when I turn on the WIU without turning on power to fixed channel 1.  I also run Legacy serial cable to the TIU.  I tried Barry's suggestion on adding power to the track last but no change.  I already had been turning on WIU and waiting for the blue light first.   If I avoid turning on the WIU and power up the track the engines receive the watchdog signal.  Also I have noticed that when I turn on the WIU last the MTH remote signal slows down to the engines even giving me error messages at times and that is why I tried changing my remote to speed, but this problem still persists? 

Barry I followed your order of power up.  No change. 

I spoke with Barry about this and he suggested that I try different scenarios. The one that works all the time is: As soon as power can be applied to the tracks (while WIU is initializing), set voltage to 18 volts and then wait for the WIU to initialize. This works for me. Using AUX power for TIU. 

Gentlemen, thinking more about Daniel's question about the aux power is the WIU powering the TIU when you turn it on since the TIU light comes on and blinks address one?  I read again Barry's remarks where he does indicate the WIU sends power to the TIU.  Then why use the TIU Aux power cable?  I know I have asked a lot of questions and asking for too much in the way of answers.  The issues are probably unique to my layout and I am trying to narrow down the possibilities, too many what if's can be thought consuming.  I appreciate everyones reply.  Thanks

Am I the only one running fixed channel with MTH z1000 power bricks?  It seems all of you are running variable channels.  I do not have any idea if this makes a difference but noticeable difference in your power ups. 

Hi HSHILL,

If you are able to make a test outside of your layout with just your TIU and WIU, then you would know if the problem is really related to only your TIU and WIU.

My tests were based on the "suspicion/hypothesis" that some combination of sources of power is keeping somehow the TIU in a state in which it would not send the "watchdog".  (power from the USB, to the FIX 1 In, from the track and into the FIX 1 Out, to the Aux Power Input, etc...) 

Personally, I would set a separate test track, hook only my TIU and WIU on it, and see if the problem is reproducible with the minimum number of components.  If not, I would start adding one by one all other major active components (the ones bringing some power) of my layout. 

When it stops working, the last added active component becomes suspect #1 of the problem... but it is not necessary the guilty one, as it might be a combination of components !

Hope this could help.

Daniel

hshill posted:

Am I the only one running fixed channel with MTH z1000 power bricks?  It seems all of you are running variable channels.  I do not have any idea if this makes a difference but noticeable difference in your power ups. 

You are not the only one using the fixed outputs. I have 2 loops of track running from fixed 1 & fixed 2 channels with Lionel PH-180 bricks. Not Z1000's, but similar. TIU is powered using the aux port with a Z500 brick. I am not using any of the variable channels at this time. Both loops are connected, but center rail is isolated. 

WIU and TIU work just fine, I have not had any problems. Everything is powered with a single power strip. One switch turns everything on all at once. WIU and ipad app were upgraded to 1.1 or whatever the latest upgrade was.

I also have a Legacy 990 system connected to the TIU common outputs, which also works just fine along with the DCS system. I do not have any Lionel wifi devices, Legacy remote only.

Daniel I could not move to a separate track system, but I started by moving accessories items off one at a time  and running a power up test with no luck.  I had to move items to have easier access anyway.  I eventually decided to move TIU channel one in and out to channel two, probably should have tried this earlier since the channel two loop had only acted up now and then, probably normal but I was so concerned with my main loop that it did not click to swap the channels. The second loop is only temp for my Grandkids to learn with the IPAD. The swap worked, engines acting normal and silent!  I cannot explain why channel two fixes the problem on the main loop and why channel one creates the problem! The other shorter loop switched to channel one is also fine. I switched back once to retest the results and they are confirmed. Thanks everyone.  Any ideas on why this happened? 

hshill posted:

Daniel I could not move to a separate track system, but I started by moving accessories items off one at a time  and running a power up test with no luck.  I had to move items to have easier access anyway.  I eventually decided to move TIU channel one in and out to channel two, probably should have tried this earlier since the channel two loop had only acted up now and then, probably normal but I was so concerned with my main loop that it did not click to swap the channels. The second loop is only temp for my Grandkids to learn with the IPAD. The swap worked, engines acting normal and silent!  I cannot explain why channel two fixes the problem on the main loop and why channel one creates the problem! The other shorter loop switched to channel one is also fine. I switched back once to retest the results and they are confirmed. Thanks everyone.  Any ideas on why this happened? 

 

Hi HSHILL,

FIX 1 IN or FIX 1 OUT are both entry points to power up the TIU.  This is unique to FIX 1. 

My best guess (and I am not affirming it for sure), is that you have some sort of power feeding back into the TIU FIX 1 preventing it to completely shutdown, and preventing it to re-issue the "watchdog" on power up.

The same sort of power feeding back into the TIU FIX 2, would not power the TIU as it is the case with FIX 1, and that would explain why what you did made the "problem" to apparently disappear.

Daniel

I understand your analysis, but channel one is still plugged in with power and running the other loop showing no watchdog signal issues.  You think the z1000 was causing the issue since I now have a z750 on channel one?

Thanks

Steve,

 You think the z1000 was causing the issue since I now have a z750 on channel one?

It's a bit of a stretch, however, if the Z4000 was leaking a small voltage, it might have been enough to cause the watchdog signal to be generated. All it takes to generate a watchdog signal is any voltage greater than 0 appearing at a TIU channel's output. However, the voltage may have been too low for the engine's electronics to be power up enough to detect the signal during the 5 seconds when it was present.

Hete's a test that you can do:

• Put things back as they were and verify that the problem still occurs.
• Next, disconnect the Hot wire between the TIU's input and the Z4000's output.
• Turn up the Z4000 to 18 volts.
• Reconnect and hold the wire between the Z4000's Hot output and the TIU's Hot input. It's critical that you do this cleanly. Using banana plugs makes this easier to do.

If the problem doesn't occur, my hypothesis may actually be correct.

Hello.  I was wondering if anyone is  having issues with the DCS Wi Fi app if you go back and forth from an Android device to an Apple Device?  

The app, TIU and the WiFi unit have current versions.  Both controlling devices (Android phone and Apple Ipad) have the latest updates.  I can get the Android app to add engines, but not the Apple device.  I keep getting the request time out errors with the Ipad.   I even deleted the App from the Ipad and reinstalled it and still no joy.  I tried moving the Wi Fi network solely to the MTH network, instead of my home network and still no joy.  And all throughout the process rebooting the devices, including the Wi Fi device and the TIU. 

Love the App and works great on the Android phone, but can't seem to get the WiFi unit to talk to the Ipad.

Any suggestions?

Thank you!!!

Todd,

In no way do the Android and iOS versions of the app interact with each other. Nor are they even aware of each other.

The most likely reason for the Android version working while the iOS version does not is that the Android device is properly connected to the WIU while the iOS device is not. If the WIU is in MTH mode, both devices must be connected to the network generated by the WIU itself. If the WIU is in HOME mode, both devices must be connected to the home WiFi network.

Another possible issue is that the WIU has firmware that is incompatible with the iOS device. If the WIU is at firmware level 1.0 the Android device and the iOS device must both be at version 1.0, as well. If the WIU firmware is at version 1.1, both devices must be at version 1.1 or 1.2.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!

Hey Barry,  

Thanks again for always responding to my questions.  And I agree.  The Android device is properly connected to either the Home or the MTH network.  During my evaluations, the Android or Apple devices are connected to network I'm using, whether it be the Home or the MTH Net. That's the rub.  I can't get the Apple APP to see the Wi Fi, while the Android APP can.   I keep getting the Timed out messages on the Apple.

I thought it might be a device issue with the Ipad, so I borrowed an Iphone to see if I could get that to connect and I could not.

I'll continue to trouble shoot and let you know what I find out.  Perhaps a total reset of the Wifi unit might help?  I will double check with firmware throughout the system.

Thanks again!

Todd