MTH wifi

The Lionel LCS system WiFi is shipping now.

 

John,

i need to ditch all my MTH engines and start over with Legacy--might be fun. ��

Just think of all the fun you'd have buying all new stuff!

 

It was tongue in cheek, I hope you realize that.

I'll be waiting for the MTH Wifi, No legacy, no legacy engines and I don't think Lionel will be making anything I want anytime soon anyway.

I'm going to order one. Concerned about how/if it will work with multiple TIU layouts.

Oh, I will wait too.  I am MTH all the way.

My question is, will one WiFi module be needed for each WiFi throttle on a given layout, or will one module be able to handle multiple throttles, and if so, how many? 

 

Bill in FtL

Come to York and MTH will show it to you.

Can't make it to York. Someone please upload the WiFi info you get/see.

I see that the WiFi module has an antenna, but what about signal interference, when other electric/electronic devices are simultanously activated in the same place, such as exhibition halls? How much can the transmission signal be disturbed and at what maximum distance can be transmitted between WiFi module and WindowsPhone?

Maximum transmission distance in open space (such as an exhibition hall) will depend mainly on the amount of radiofrequency interference and whether the MTH wireless module is going to support just the "g" or also "n" wireless networking speeds, but say roughly 100-200 feet.

 

Wireless interference will probably be similar to what people running wireless networks inside apartment buildings experience, where all sorts of wireless devices are being used in addition to wireless networks. In many apartment buildings typically over a dozen wireless networks are running simultaneously in close proximity - yet the technology still works.

FYI, the Lionel WiFi module only supports 802.11b.  So, I wouldn't be surprised if the MTH WiFi module also only supports "b."

MTH now has a product information page for this module up on their web site. Few details are provided - but 802.11n is mentioned in the spec list.

Suffice it to say the limitations of lower range and data transmission speeds of even the older standards are more than adequate for controlling a train layout.

Any word on two, three, four or more TIU's?

A disclaimer - I have no more infomation about this than what has previously been posted on this forum and the extremely limited information currently available from MTH. That being said... a discussion on this topic earlier this year suggested that each TIU would need to be cabled to its own network adapter, and each network adapter would need to be configured to connect to the same network. This would allow the phone/tablet to communicate with all TIUs via the network. Perhaps Barry Broskowitz can shed more light on this.

I have no more info than has been provided by MTH.

Per the wifi demo today, one wifi unit per TIU

Really?!?!  

 

Even when using Super TIU mode?

 

WARNING: Rant follows.

 

If this is the case, then I think MTH needs to go back to the drawing board. I have 3 TIU's and there are clubs out there running many more TIU's.  3 of these WiFi units would cost around $500.  And, with multiple TIU's and multiple WiFi adapters, the potential for interference would seem to be very high. 

 

How about some sort of amplified splitter that could connect from the WiFi module to multiple TIU's?

 

Rant off.

I was impressed by the app. Good job MTH And Dave!  

If that's the case, we won't be using it at the club. We have six TIU's on the layout. One per TIU would be expensive and create connectivity issues.

Matt,

If that's the case, we won't be using it at the club. We have six TIU's on the layout. One per TIU would be expensive and create connectivity issues.

Expensive? Yes.

 

Connectivity issues? No, not really. In fact, one per TIU is better connectivity than 1 for many. Each TIU would have it's own IP address instead of having to share an IP address.

What I heard at the various meetings made my head hurt.

 

Wed night:

a.  Hikel's WiFi setup requires one WiFi receiver per TIU, hard wired together.

b.  MTH's WiFi unit can control multiple TIUs, but the distance between the WiFi and TIU needs to be less than 15-20 feet.

c.  MTH's WiFi will require a new nex gen TIU with WiFi.  I do not remember anything said about hard wiring the WiFi to older TIUs.  I did show up late so I may have missed that.

 

Fri forum meeting:  Mike stated the WiFi module will control multiple TIUs.  No comment on whether or not you needed a new nex gen TIU.

 

From above posts:  WiFi has 100 to 200 foot range.   I may have not understood Dave when he said 15-20 feet.

 

I think from all this, one WiFi module only but you will need to buy new TIUs with WiFi built in.  Maybe you will be able to use your old TIU, but one WiFi Per TIU hardwired.

 

No matter what, it will cost to convert to WiFi.  I just wish we could get a definitive answer.

I appreciate you are posting this information  from notes you made... but the information noted seems to contradict itself.

 

It is pretty clear the MTH DCS WiFi module that will be sold early next year can be connected to any of the TIU models produced to date. It also seems that only one TIU can be connected to one of these WiFi modules.

 

The new information you have provided seems to be saying that (no surprise) MTH has plans to build a WiFi interface directly into the "next generation" TIU - which would obviate any need to buy a separate WiFi module for any "next generation" new or additional TIU added to a layout. Presumably there would be no need for new users to buy a DCS remote in future - they could just buy a "next generation" TIU and control it with their tablet or phone.

At the demo today Mike said that the WiFi adapter can connect to new USB and older Serial TIUs. 

There would be minimal interference since all of them (or at most all but one of them) would be set up as WiFi clients on a single WiFi network. It works the same way as multiple computers acting as clients to a single WiFi base station - each additional client will take up a "share" of the maximum WiFi data transmission capacity of the network, but by design there is minimal radiofrequency interference between each of the clients.

 

Team,

 

I acquired the DCS Proto-Net by Hikel Layouts & Trains this past week for beta testing.

 

Currently, I am in the processing of acquiring the necessary equipment to get the device tested.  A TIU, AIU and iPOD will be on my things to buy in order to get started. 

 

My intend is to get it up and running in a week or so.  I will provide feedback as a new user to DCS and post my findings.  A testing layout will also be constructed using MTH, Lionel, and other manufacturers of track to see how it performs. 

 

As the testing betting test gets on its way, I also plan to open the forum and allow members to operate my trains remotely from your home.  Once I get some bugs out of the way, I will begin to request volunteers to test the network out.  I currently have 15 PS2 engines; with enough volunteers, I believe that we may be able to connect as many remote users as we can.  I have a fiber optic upload connection at my house with enough bandwidth to set various IP cameras so as each member logs on, he or she will be able to see the locomotive being operated.  With enough interest and money available, I plan to connect wireless internet cameras onboard the trains also.  I imagine that layout operations may be a possibility by having a remote dispatcher and having 1 or 2 people at the layout ensuring things go smooth. 

 

More to follow as Hikel provides details and I set up all necessary equipment at home.

 

I am new at DCS so I will need some assistance to initially set up DCS at home...the networking and remote access part should come easy.

 

I look forward to upgrading from conventional to DCS.

 

Cesar

A lot of misinformation here.

Dave's unit is for beta testing the software he is developing, it is not a commercial product. Dave had about a dozen units at the DCS meeting. His box connects by ethernet to your home wifi router and requires one unit for each TIU.  The MTH wifi unit will not be hard wired to your home network.  The MTH unit can connect to ~5 or 6 TIU's and they can be USB or serial with adapter.  The ~15' limitation is a USB reliability issue, YMMV.  Dave's app looked slick.

Dan

This makes no sense to me. 

 

For those familiar with the Lionel LCS WiFi, it can be connected to your home network as a wireless client.  You then connect your ipad to your home network and the LCS app on your ipad communicates with the LCS WiFi using your home network as a communications backbone.  Barry confirmed to me that he has the DCS WiFi configured in the same manner.  In other words, the DCS WiFi is a client on your home network and your ipad app communicates with it through your home network.  With multiple TIU's, it sounds like you would have multiple DCS WiFi modules connected to your home network.  Your DCS app on your ipad (or iphone) would have to maintain connectivity to all of the DCS WiFi modules.

 

I know that I am doing a lot of speculating as we all are.  I am very eager to see the documentation for DCS WiFi.

 

I did pre-order 1 DCS Wi-Fi module today with the expectation that I would only need 1. 

 

I hope that some folks at MTH are reading this thread and will help to clarify the requirements for DCS WiFi.

That is exactly what I was saying - each of the DCS WiFi units would be a client on a single WiFi network, which could be your existing home WiFi network. I was addressing your concern with regard to the potential for interference with such a setup - and WiFi networks are designed to avoid radiofrequency interference between clients on the same network. The phone/tablet would have no difficulty maintaining communication with several DCS WiFi clients on the same WiFi network.

 

As Dan has pointed out above, his understanding is that a single DCS WiFi module can indeed be connected to multiple TIUs at the same time. That being the case, this discussion regarding the need to connect multiple DCS WiFi modules to the same WiFi network is unnecesssary.

Vince,

 

To be clear, I'm using the DCS beta app withe Dave's ProtoNet devices over Ethernet. The MTH WiFi box is not yet available.

Thanks to Dan and Barry for the clarifications.

 

I will patiently (well, maybe impatiently ) await official information from MTH in the coming months.

Vince

 

it was a great demo from Mike and Dave. I would wait for some info directly from them or guys like Barry. There was a lot to digest so I think folks probably heard a lot and mixed some together. It looks pretty cool though. 

Mike Wolfe waved the WiFi unit around at the OTR Grandstand meeting and stated one per layout, even with multiple TIU's.  I would hope he knows what he's talking about.

 

Will you be able to update your TIU without having to use a pc when this comes out?

IMO, it's a VERY bad idea to do any firmware updates using wireless technology, so I hope they do NOT do this.

 

Well, I'll have you guys at the next DCS users dinner next April

John, Marty had a beta copy of the Lionel Legacy System Utility that worked over WiFi and stated that modules could be programed with it.

Dan

I would be very reluctant to upgrade over WiFi, the reason most network stuff doesn't allow it is fairly obvious.

 

The WiFi LSU will make modules over WiFi.  You still must have the module in the base and Cab2 to burn the module and of course actually upgrade the units.  At that point, at least if the module making fails, you haven't dumped a partial or interrupted file into the base or remote because it is a 2 step process.

 

That's not to say the module couldn't have had an issue being made but there are checks for that.