Mth z 4000 help

I am also running it with tmcc.

I would say that this is not a transformer problem, but a problem in the coupler circuitry, or pick up.  The amperage variation you see is the coupler getting power intermittently.  I'm not familiar with the Lionel Vanderbilt coupler, but I'd check the coupler pickup and the wire.

I hooked it back up to the cw80 and it’s been running for about 5 mins with no issue. Idk what’s going on 

2 minutes of having back on the z4000 it uncoupled 

You are picking up a spurious DC signal that is triggering the coupler. Some are more sensitive than others, I don't know why. The cure is a capacitor soldered across the coupler leads. Go drilling back through posts on this forum. Or ask GRJ what the recommended spec is for the cap. He will know.

Chris

LVHR

Per an old thread I have saved, "you will need to install a capacitor between the hot lead to the coupler and the chassis ground for each coupler that is misbehaving. The capacitor needs to be 1 Microfarad, non-polarized 50V. " The thread was from Train Studios America.

Chris

LVHR

Had a similar problem with a legacy engine.  Found that the wire leading from the coupler to the legacy electronics had a bare spot and was randomly touching the frame.  Simple replacement of coupler fixed the problem in my case.

Marty

I just don’t understand why I can get it to happen on the Lionel cw80, only on the mth z4000.

Not sure if this adds any value but I also noticed while running the commodore Vanderbilt that the reverse tender light flickers occasionally with the z4000 bur does the with the cw-80.

First, make sure this is the TMCC Version, legacy is different and YOU CAN NOT solder capacitor UNLESS it is the R4LC version.

Two different methods are used to generate the voltage between a Z-4000 and CW-80.  Also CW-80 is limited to 18V out, which is max for Lionel CC engines.  What voltage are you using out of the Z-4000 for command operations?  Lower it to 17-18V and test.  G

The cw-80 was outputting about 14v to the track when I measured it. I had the mth 4000 set at 17v. I am using tmcc as this was purchased with the engine around 1996.

Being that I bought this transformer used, is there something that could be programmed with the transformer that would make my engine act up?

Casper posted:

I recently got a mth z4000 to run my 6x8 layout with two separate loops. While running my Lionel commodore Vanderbilt Hudson 4-6-4 I am running into a issue where my electro coupler is opening by itself, I am running it with no cars and it is still happening. I did notice that while it is running I am getting a fluctuation of about 1 amp while it’s running. Could this be why it is opening? Any information or help would be great. I never had this problem while I was using the cw80. Thanks!

hi nothing is wrong with your coupler or your transformer. two things can cause this . one if you have a lionel command base pluged into the wall and hooked up to the tracks.you are getting signal interference. two if you have track switches under there own power. you have to put in sink the transformers. this is done by flipping the ac plugs,one of course. the z 4000 is very touchy when it comes rf.

Dew, my tmcc command base is plugged into a power strip, how can I cut down interference to it?

Dew posted:

Casper posted:

I recently got a mth z4000 to run my 6x8 layout with two separate loops. While running my Lionel commodore Vanderbilt Hudson 4-6-4 I am running into a issue where my electro coupler is opening by itself, I am running it with no cars and it is still happening. I did notice that while it is running I am getting a fluctuation of about 1 amp while it’s running. Could this be why it is opening? Any information or help would be great. I never had this problem while I was using the cw80. Thanks!

hi nothing is wrong with your coupler or your transformer. two things can cause this . one if you have a lionel command base pluged into the wall and hooked up to the tracks.you are getting signal interference. two if you have track switches under there own power. you have to put in sink the transformers. this is done by flipping the ac plugs,one of course. the z 4000 is very touchy when it comes rf.

There is a lot more then 2 things that can cause this.  If the Z-4000 has a problem and is putting out some stray DC this can cause issues.  Fair to say it is linked to the Z since not occurring with the CW-80. 

Try a lower voltage with the Z and see if problem goes away. 

Do you have a good Volt meter.  G

Yes I have a good volt meter, I have ran conventional engines and also a lionchief engine and they ran fine. Only occurs when I run the Hudson with tmcc. Even with the tmcc unplugged and running it in conventional mode it still opens the coupler. I also notice a lot of fluctuation with the amp meter while running the Hudson but this does not occur with any of the other engines I have. Unfortunatly that is the only tmcc engine I have so I cannot test anything else with tmcc.

Casper posted:

Yes I have a good volt meter, I have ran conventional engines and also a lionchief engine and they ran fine. Only occurs when I run the Hudson with tmcc. Even with the tmcc unplugged and running it in conventional mode it still opens the coupler. I also notice a lot of fluctuation with the amp meter while running the Hudson but this does not occur with any of the other engines I have. Unfortunatly that is the only tmcc engine I have so I cannot test anything else with tmcc.

casper you say that you bought your z4000 used correct. well just to let you know.the first couple of runs.mth did inquirer a couple of problems with thez4000s . one was the fan circuit and the other was ,the reprogram circuit. i did have a problem with a proto one which better known as qsi. i put my nyc empire engine on the track and power up my z4000 . and my hudson started to jerk until the smoke unit made a pop noise.called mth to find out what was going. they told me that the program circuit was putting out dc current in sputters i would have to send it to them to repair it. i know that they put a bigger surface mount capacitor on the board. when it came back my trains ran great.

If this is the only TMCC unit, you will have some issue figuring out what the problem really is.  But here is what you do.  Unplug the coupler electrically and run the engine.  If it opens it is mechanical most likely.  They can become loose and open on own.  You can replace with new coupler and see if that resolves it.  If it does stay closed when disconnected it is an electronic noise issue.

Are the caps on your AC motor brushes attached?  You can do the cap mod to the coupler as described.

Granted it sounds like a combination of your Z and the engine causing this, and as I said there can be reasons your Z is putting noise on the system.  Or it can be an issue with how your engine AC motors are reacting to the more pure sinewave of the Z-4000.  It you had a PW transformer and used it set to 18V it would be interesting to see if you had the same issue.

Have you tried lowering the Z voltage to 14-15 to see if that resolved it.  G

I’m not sure how I would check the caps on the engine motor. When I got home later this evening I will check the other options you suggested. I’m guessing there is no way to check the transformer itself for noise.

Someone told me that particular engine might not like the sign wave that the z4000 puts out. 

They are soldered on the brushes to ground. If the lead or solder joint broke no cap to quiet the noise generated by the motor/brushes. It is a look and see. G

Running it at around the same voltage the cw80 outputs seemEd to improve the coupler a lot. As soon as I bumped it up past that it seemed to uncouple almost instantly 

I’m still considering if I should keep the z4000 or go with a different route.

Would be nice to know if it is the train or the transformer first.  No other TMCC engine that you can run? G

No, I talked to a local train shop and he said he has a z4000 that he could run the train on. He said it’s more likely something with the engine than the transformer.

I currently have my two loops hooked up straight to each handle of the mth z4000. I built my layout for my son and myself to use but when I feel like the z4000 does not cut off power as fast as I would like, causing some sparks to happen if a train jumps the track. I am worried that this is going to cause damage to my trains or layout and need suggestions on how I can get faster protection without having all the sparks.