MTH Z-4000 powering Lionel powermaster - no sound on Proto one - why ?

Apparently, the power is very "dirty" through the older Powermaster and additional capacitors can help: Here, here, here, also mentioned here, here and here. 
The Legacy Powermaster is apparently better.

Uberstationmeister:

Thanks for your speedy reply to my thread.  very good info to look at

tom

I used to start up my PS-1 locos with a 100 mfd non-polarized capacitor across the Powermaster output. Once the loco is running the capacitor can be disconnected.

I used a momentary contact push button to put the capacitor into the circuit, as the Powermaster does not like to have a capacitive load..

I know a fellow from the old AOL Boards made these non-polar capacitors available and they work.  I hadn't heard about removing it from the Powermaster output.  What adverse effects are of concern here?  Back 20+ years ago, people were leaving these capacitors in the circuit when operating PS1 with non-MTH solid state devices.  

Model A,

Is the sound completely dead, or are you instead finding the whistle/horn and bell missing when you push the respective buttons?

Mike

I started up my PS1 engine on a a 400 without the power master in the circuit.  After it stared and the sound came on, I then had it wired where I could change a power with the power master installed and ran it from there.  It ran fine with sound.  I had heard that MTH had the PS1 locos to turn off the sound if it sensed a Lionel power master.  I don't know ir that is true, but the engine worked the way i have described.

Started on a Z4000 not 400.

Mike: without the non-polarized capacitor installed on the early powermaster output there is no sound.

When I install one or two of the 100 uf caps (in parallel) the sound comes on and stay on accordingly, however the bell comes on and most times I cannot get the bell off. and it usually triggers the announcements.

I'm still hoping we can find a fix to use these powermasters ( I need to power three different loops)

I hear the Legacy powermaster will do the trick but they are $99. each and not sure if that will do the trick

thanks for your reply

Tom

Lou Kovach's designs for the TPC operated PS1 without problems (or at least without the problems caused by solid state power supplies like the Lionel MW, Powermaster, MRC packs, etc.).  The TPC's features were, I believe,  built into the Legacy Powermaster, which should operate PS1 without the problems of the 1994 Powermaster.  Haven't tried it myself as I no longer have any PS1 locos, but that's the story as it evolved.

Looks like the Legacy powermaster 6-37146 might be the way to go as the TPC's are no longer in the Lionel catalog.  Are there anyone else out there who is running MTH proto one locomotives with the Legacy powermaster for walk around convenience ?  if so, is it working good for you ?  can you trigger the announcements ?  or fire the coupler ?

Thanks

Tom

@Landsteiner posted:

I know a fellow from the old AOL Boards made these non-polar capacitors available and they work.  I hadn't heard about removing it from the Powermaster output.  What adverse effects are of concern here?  Back 20+ years ago, people were leaving these capacitors in the circuit when operating PS1 with non-MTH solid state devices.  

A club member was on the original LionTech design team. He said that the Powermaster was not designed to power a capacitive load and would be damaged internally.

Given that he is extremely intelligent, has an incredible knowledge of electronics, and worked on the original design team, I took him at his word.

Today I replaced the three older 1994-1995 era Lionel powermasters with three Lionel 6-37146 Legacy powermasters, each programmed as track one for my three intersecting loops and I am totally satisfied .

I can now run all my MTH original protosound (proto 1) to their full potential including flawless sound with my Cab-1L remote.  Horn, bell, coupler firing, FYS announcements, great speed control.

I had previously tried the non-polarized capacitors to no avail. I had also previously installed my homemade BCR's in all my proto one locomotives.

I recently decided to rewire my layout with some double throw double pole center off toggle switches so that I could choose to run my selections of locomotives of original protosound along with my Lionel and MTH command engines.  Actually the proto 1  now run so good with all the features I think it would be a waste of money to convert these to command.

This forum has always given me lots uf useful info, thanks to all who responded.

Tom