MTH PS1 and PowerMaster

Is the Switch to the Conv side or Tmcc side

I ran Mth Ps-1 in Conventional mode !

Please Note :  DO NOT USE the CW-80 for POWER !  MTH Engines dont work rite or the boards get messed up !  PLEASE Note : that info came from this site if I remember rite

Many of the chopped waveform transformers and controllers cause issues with some PS/1 stuff, and even some PS/2 stuff.

One trick that has worked for a number of people is a 50V 47uf non-polarized capacitor across the track feed.

John is right on point. The capacitor smooths out some of the "chop" in the wave of electronic phase-limiting transformers. Depending on the transformer and the PS-1/QSI vintage, you may need up to a 200uF non-polarized to smooth out the wave.

Did anyone actually read my post, or did they just get hung up on the CW-80?  First and foremost, I have always run all my PS1 locomotives with CW-80s, and never had a problem.  In fact they run better with that transformer than the MTH Z-1000, so that is not the issue.  The CW-80 isn't good for PS2/3 locomotives, but it'll run most PS1 locomotives just fine.  The issue is no sound when using the TMCC PowerMaster.  I used the same transformer with both the PowerMaster and the ZW-C.  The sounds works with the ZW-C but not with the TMCC PowerMaster.  So it's the same transformer, just different voltage regulators.  Now I'm no genius when it come to electricity, and I apologize if my opening statement of this post came across badly, but being I used the same transformer how could a bad waveform be an issue?  Are the PowerMaster and ZW-C changing it from what the PowerHouse puts out?  Should I just go with the 200uF cap to get greater compatibility?  My PS1 locomotives run the whole range from the 1st ones put out to the last ones made, and everything in between.

I read your post about a specific issue and suggested a fix that has worked for many people for the same problem with certain PS/1 locomotives.  You're free to ignore any suggestions by me, and I'll refrain from making them in the future if it upsets you.

Over-n-out

No John, what you said did not upset me, nor has anything you ever said upset me.  And I hope you do continue answering my questions.  Guess I should of done better at directing my response to the right person and asked for clarity as I incorrectly assumed that all the responses were geared toward using the CW-80.  This is a failing of forums in general is a complete understanding of what people are saying.

As for my problem, I just don't understand how the PowerMaster and the ZW-C with the same PowerHouse affect the locomotive differently.  And would it be better to get a 200uF cap like Matt said, or should I try the 47uF cap first and go from there?

Sinclair, I've read your post and yes I've had similar problems using a Powermaster and CAB-1. My power source in this case is a PW ZW transformer. 

Gunrunnerjohn has a solution by but I've experienced the same problem as you have described.

My suggestion to anyone using CW-80 with MTH should cease immediately.   I have gone through 3.  Thinking it wasn't the transformer is wrong.

The last transformer I was using just power a test track.  I powered  the track to do the sound set upgrade and a coil on the board over heated.  And the transformer ceased working.

I have a chance to buy a MRC transformer to replace the Lionel CW-80.  Whats anybodies opinion?  For a test track and to do updates with the computer I do not want to spend the money for another Z-4000.

I am fairly certain one reason the TPC 300 was developed (by IC controls?) was because of the incompatibility of the Powermaster and the PS-1 sound system.

Being an electrician and not an electronics guru, I would guess that the powermaster varies the speed of the engine by changing the shape of the sine wave produced by the AC voltage. This could be done by turning the power on and off rapidly, thus producing the dreaded "chopped" sine wave that many of our trains' electronics don't process properly. Adding the capacitor as GunrunnerJohn and Matt Jackson suggested kinda averages out the output of the powermaster (takes a little out of the high end of the wave to charge the capacitor, and adds a bit to the low end by discharging)

Since your ZWC doesn't produce the same results, I would guess that it uses a different means of regulating the voltage.

Most of this is just an educated guess; I am open (and welcome) corrections or elaborations of the above.

J White

I run PS-1 engines using a Powermaster with a postwar ZW transformer, and in the past, have used a PM with a CW-80. I can operate the engine, sound the horn/whistle/bell, and trigger Protosounds using a CAB-1. The key is to set the transformer voltage at 12 volts upon startup, than gradually increase voltage once the engine gets rolling.

At least this has always worked for me.

I do run the TPC 400 with two 180 bricks and a PS1 loco.  Works fine.

IC Controls did produce the TPC for issues between TMCC Conv/PowerMaster/PowerHouse issues and MTH locomotives.  Later on Lionel bought out the company, and IC products are part of Lionel's

 Track and Power line.

In truth, the only electronically controlled model train transformer that I'm aware of that generates a real sine wave is the MTH Z4000.  The Lionel TPC, the MTH TIU, the MTH Z-controller (for Z500, Z750, & Z1000 bricks), the ZW-C and ZW-L are all chopped waveform transformers and generate very similar waveforms.  It's not clear to me why some affect PS/1 more than others.  I know that on my test track some PS/1 stuff doesn't like the MTH TIU powered from a pure sine wave transformer, so it's not just one environment.

no reason for anyone with ps1 locos not to use a z-4000. they have the programming buttons which i use to this day. even the remote to plug in this transformer is available again. plenty of used z-4000s on this forum from time-to time.-jim

I can think of more than 300 reasons not to use the Z4000 unless you already have one!  It's real easy to spend other folks money...

Fortunately I work at a company that has quite a selection of electronics parts, so after hunting down someone that knows what and where things are, I showed him the page from DigiKey you posted John and he pick it out and gave me one.  Good thing he also made sure I knew how to hook it up as I would of put it in backwards (The stripe isn't on the positive side!).  Well, it worked.  One of the two locomotives did require a power cycle before the sounds returned.

You saved my bedroom layout, thank you John, and sorry again for my outburst.  These CW-80 naysayers really get under my skin for some reason.

You can't install a bi-polar capacitor backwards, it has no polarity.

If you have a standard polarized capacitor, it'll die really soon, for AC it must be non-polarized.

Oh dear.  Well, at least i know it works so I can remove it until I get the right one.

I'm surprised it didn't smoke!  I'll bet it's getting pretty warm if it's a standard polarized cap!

The MRC pure power transformer is described as having a pure sine wave also.

The Pure Power MRC's are not electronically controlled. Neither are the Atlas and Williams 80 watt transformers.

I wasn't looking at it or touching it, so I don't know if it smoked or got hot.  But then it was never on very long or at any voltage above maybe 8V.  I was testing with a O42 locomotive on O27 track, so it was just a quick scoot to and forth on the 27" straight.  Just enough to show that the sound worked was all it was powered for.  When I get home, I will take it off so that if I run anything else I don't worry about a sound and smoke show.

When you get the correct non-polarized one, you can leave it on unless you run DCS (PS/2) on the tracks.  It won't affect conventional or TMCC/Legacy running.