MTH Z-4000 Transformer?

I have 2 of them and I am very happy with them, if the engine goes off the track the breaker trips immediately and I like the display of volts and amps.

If you mostly plan on running conventional engines and more modern ones like the one you have, then the Z-4000 is an excellent transformer. The new Lionel ZW-L is probably better, but it is much more expensive. Older ZW transformers will work well for your application as well. Older transformers may need some upgrades to add electronic breakers.

If you are planning to move to command control trains, the equation changes. There are lots of threads on transformers on the forum. I suggest you peruse the electrical forum. It is a wealth of information. 

Don't rush in. It is a big expenditure, and you want to get it right. You can run the engine you have off of a very basic transformer, even the dreaded CW-80.

George

I have 2 of them, just recently purchased to replace my Z-1000s. 

In all honesty, I do not need these things. My layout does not need transformers of this magnitude but it allows greater electrical freedom with my accessories and 2 of these puts less of a strain on the "not-getting-any-younger" electrical system of my 45 year old home

What I seriously DO NOT like is the fact that if there is a short or derailment, they lower the track voltage for about 5 -8 seconds and THEN shut the power off. IMO, just like the Z-1000s, the breaker should pop and power should be cut instantaneously when there is a short. 

I run with the Z4K transformers.  A great product.  I even have a Z4K on my workbench.  It is a frankenstein and works great.

My only dislike is that the Z-4000 will not power on with the throttles set for track power. They must be zero'd and reset for each run session. I like a master layout on/off switch

One more thought, to save some money starting out, you can't beat four adjustable outputs on the zw. Especially if you don't need all the watts. Either way (z4000 or zw)you may want to add better short protection. A good

Zw seems to be less than half of a used 4000.

I have 2 for track power only.  In use the other transformers for turnout power, building lighting, etc....  No complaints about the Z4000.  The best in my opinion.

DR, I like to see posts like yours.  You are making the right choice going with modern electronics.

Z4000 is the best transformer! In my opinion.

Can you rebuild the Z4000 like you can the ZW275?  I just recently had my ZW rebuilt and was told It was older than me...and im in my 50s... now that is quality we dont offer anymore...with anything! And she is again running like new.  I dont ever recall seeing a rebuilt Z4000...but Im more lionel with my engines.

DR,

   Lets just say I have several Z4K Transformers and they all work great.

PCRR/Dave

Hello DR.

The MTH's Z-4000 is my BEST transformer and second one.  It is 6 years old and still working great but last year I had to replace the pot controller on left side.   The pot controller is easy to replace and few bucks.  This is my first time I ever worked on transformer.   It has been working great since the repair was done at home.   I like it a lot and its heavy for me to pick up.  I have 4 train sets and I think I can run all for sets at same time!!!

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.  Romans 12:1 NKJV

Tiffany

My dad used his trusty ZW's for many years but always wanted a simple remote controller that he could use to control voltage, direction, bell & whistle and walk around the layout without having to buy a DCS or TMCC system with a lot of buttons. 

I showed him the Z4000 remote commander and soon after the ZW got a new job as accessory power transformer. He has two Z4000's that can both be controlled from one (or more) Z4000 remote commander.

MTH Web link:  Z4000 Remote commander

A solid choice.  As others have stated it's one of the top transformers with modern electronics in mind.

Just a quick ??? Great transformer but...

VAGolfer1950 says...   mth-z-4000-right-of-way-24v-400w-transformer-2-lionel-type-z-250w-transformers ....notice that when the handles are in the off position they readouts are at 0.0 I did the MTH recommended repair to stop current leakage. Most will show 0.1 to 0.2 when handles are off.

Is this something to be concerned about and what is the fix???

Dennis G. posted:

Just a quick ??? Great transformer but...

VAGolfer1950 says...   mth-z-4000-right-of-way-24v-400w-transformer-2-lionel-type-z-250w-transformers ....notice that when the handles are in the off position they readouts are at 0.0 I did the MTH recommended repair to stop current leakage. Most will show 0.1 to 0.2 when handles are off.

Is this something to be concerned about and what is the fix???

 

 

 

The way I understand this situation...

Some of the early (first run) Z4000's would output up to 2.5 volts when there was no load on the transformer. I have one of these and have not applied "the fix", but I have a lighted lock-on that brings the volts to zero when the transformer is connected to the track. When running some engines on a track without a lighted lock-on with these early Z4000's, the track voltage wouldn't zero and the engine couldn't change direction.

An 18volt bulb across the terminal output or a lighted lock-on would also correct the problem on the early Z4000's.

The later Z4000's would display a very small amount voltage (0.1 - 0.2) when no load was applied and didn't have the above mentioned problems.

The Z4K is my primary power source for the two main lines on the lower level of my layout.  I'm running both DCS and Legacy without any issues!  I recommend it.

Chief Bob (Retired)

Team Ridley posted:

Can you rebuild the Z4000 like you can the ZW275?  I just recently had my ZW rebuilt and was told It was older than me...and im in my 50s... now that is quality we dont offer anymore...with anything! And she is again running like new.  I dont ever recall seeing a rebuilt Z4000...but Im more lionel with my engines.

Remember your PW ZW was more mechanical with brushes that would wear and carbon dust that needed to be cleaned.  The Modern transforms do not have consumable wear parts.  But if an electronic failure, parts can be replaced.  G

George, I have no idea why people still use the old ZW with all the high output transformers available today.  Funny story, about two months ago, I had a man bring me a Vision Line Big Boy with some strange complaints.  He was operating it with an old American Flyer model 16B transformer that was built in the middle of the last century.  Why people are in love with those old clunkers is something I do not understand.   BTW, the Big Boy was fine no stories when run with my Z4K.

I purchased one of these just yesterday. My only complaint is there should be rubber feet on the thing. It has a hard plastic bottom that will scratch the heck out of anything wood you place it on. 

Operationally thus far it seems fine to me! Especially for something made in Thailand. 

We use two Z-4000 transformers on our layout. They are wonderful. 

The MTH Z4000 is the best transformer! Never had a complaint other than the noisy fan. 

Shorts and other issues simply are derived from OPERATOR ERROR  and or a poorly designed Layout.

I think an equivalent case can be made for the ZW-L, which I've just bought.  If you primarily have Lionel products, or need more than 400 or so watts, or like the idea of a remote controlling conventional locos, the ZW-L likely makes more sense.  Each ZW-L has four Lionel Powermasters that respond to Legacy remote commands in conventional mode.  The Z-4000 used to have that capability but MTH stopped making the receiver and remote for conventional remote command.

After using Z4000's,  (Two), and some time (Four), Fort Pitt Highrailer's modular layout, when installing, or tearing down, the layout, I always found myself picking/handling the units, by grabbing the throttle handles.  Wouldn't it be better if there was a (pick-it-up) handle/ or loop on top????  Repair/maintenance of Z4000's most likely involves the handle controls.   IMO,  Mike CT.  This modular group had two of the four Z4000's reconditioned.  

fisherdoc posted:

I purchased one of these just yesterday. My only complaint is there should be rubber feet on the thing. It has a hard plastic bottom that will scratch the heck out of anything wood you place it on. 

Operationally thus far it seems fine to me! Especially for something made in Thailand. 

There's nothing wrong with electronics made in Thailand.  I have met the Contract Manufacturer that builds these and they are nothing less than professional.  They are certified for many manufacturing processes including medical implants.  

Lou N

I have a early make Z-4000. Everything was fine for years with the Z-4000 & a ZW witch I had checked the phasing on. Then one day I replaced the ZW with two Z-1000's, I didn't check the phasing, because the Z-4000 & the Z-1000's both have the same polarized 120v connectors. What I didn't know was that wires on the Z-4000 power cord were not right, kapow! When I tuck the Z-4000 apart the first clue was that the ribbed side of the power cord went to the on off switch. This is no no you never switch the common side of the line cord! This was a problem in early models. I switch the wires in side the Z-4000 then everything was fine.

thank you MONK

Fisherdoc,

A package of felt pads with adhesive backing - about $2 at your local ACE or TrueValue - will solve the issue of possible scratches.

Is it better to connect a Z 4000 to the TIU from a variable or fixed channel? Thanks.

It'll work on either, obviously it'll probably be more useful on the fixed channels.  I believe when the variable input voltage gets down too low you may have issues with controlling it.

Thanks John.

Folks,

We did a Collector's Gallery article  on the Z-4000 in the April/May issue of O Gauge Railroading. It will give you some historical insight in how the Z 4000 came to be and why it was such an important piece of equipment for O gauge  hobbyists in the last 20 years.

Just another good reason to subscribe either to our print edition or digitally. OGR can enrich your hobby life even more than reading the Forum alone!

Ed Boyle

Thanks for the heads up,Ed. Haven't gotten that issue yet. Can't wait. 

Tom,

The April/May issue has been out for a while. I am surprised you have not gotten it in the mail yet.

Ed Boyle

Again, thanks for the heads up. I'm on it.

I have mixed feelings about the Z4000 (my club uses them and we have repaired or replaced several over the years).  When they first came out, they were the only available alternative to reconditioned ZWs.  The ZWs had overheating issues running high amp loads for hours at a time so the club adopted Z4000s when they first came out.   For MTH Proto-1 locos, the Z4000 is very convenient (essential?) to reset and reprogram the electronics.   My biggest complaint on the Z4K is the need to reset both throttles after a short is cleared.   The Z4K also has a large footprint on your layout surface - about twice the space as a ZW.   Since I prefer control from a hand-held instead of throttle handles, I use PowerMasters and TPCs at home.  They fit neatly under the layout along with the 18v power supplies.

The circuit breaker on the Z4000 is not fast enough (at least on early versions) for today's electronics.  I discovered that the PS-2 board conducts power between shorted rollers on a trace across the board which will destroy it. 

Buying modern power + control systems + instant circuit breakers gets expensive quickly.  Since the OP has a couple of conventional locos, I think a good reconditioned ZW is the initial best choice for power.   The prices for ZWs are very good these days.  Add a fast acting 10A fuse or a TMCC Direct Lockon breaker if the ZW's breaker is too slow.   The ZW is always good for accessory power or test bench use if the OP acquires a modern power system.

My layout is 100% conventional.  I have one Z-4000 with the Z-4000 Remote, and an MRC Pure Power Dual.   I run 4 loops. The Z is at least 15 years old.  Both work flawlessly and I have never had a problem with either of them.  I have a ZW and KW for backup and have never had to use them.  The Z and the MRC work equally well, and I like having the meters on the MRC.  Definitely read Ed Boyle's article about the Z.  It is excellent and gave me more info about it than I ever knew.  Thanks Ed. 

I second the felt pads suggestion above.  Rubber feet would work fine, too, but I had felt pads handy.

I pick mine up using the gap under the throttle handles at the base of the unit.  Doesn't help getting it back in the styrofoam packing but makes it easy to move around without risking throttle damage.

I enjoyed reading the Collector's Gallery about the Z-4000 in OGR.  Informative and well written.  Hopefully more information about the different generations of Z-4000 will be included in a future update.

Good luck,

Scott

I got into 0 gauge in 1998 . That is the year MTH released the Z-4000. I purchased this transformer at that time. I have constructed six layouts. This one transformer has power all my layouts. Twenty two years and never a problem .

I have had my Z4000 for almost 20 years with no problems.  I sold the two ZWs I had, which ran hot and of course do not have the fast acting circuit breakers that are required when running today's modern trains.   To further protect my modern command control locomotives, I put in line circuit breakers in between the Z4000 and the TIU.  Haven't fried a board yet!