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MTH’s New Premier PS3 Dreyfus Hudson

 

When I returned to O-Gauge model railroading ten years ago, I made a list of the locomotives I wanted.  It was a two-tiered list, with a list of model locomotives I would like to have (Union Pacific propane turbine) and a shorter list above that of locomotives I had to have.  Near the top of that shorter list was New York Central’s Dreyfuss Hudson.  I’m not into the New York Central that much – the only other NYC locomotive I have is Lionel’s lovely, feature-rich Vision Hudson.  And while I know it was a very good machine, I’m also not among those many model train enthusiasts who consider the J3a to be the, or among the, best steam locomotives ever made.   But I’m a sucker for Art Deco, particularly Art Deco done right, and there is nothing, not just no other locomotive, but no other building, no set of gates, no monument, no sculpture, no painting, that I think represents Art Deco at its finest more than the Dreyfuss Hudson.  To me, it defines Art Deco, and along with the Cisitalia 202 GT and the Bell 47, is one of the most beautiful, iconic industrial designs ever turned out in any art genre. 

 

And yet somehow, the Dreyfuss Hudson eluded me.  I would see them for sale here and there, but it never happened. 

 

So I was thrilled when Patrick’s Trains told me they were shipping the MTH Premier PS3 model I had ordered.  I had big expectations, too, because MTH’s Premier ATSF 3460 series Hudsons were among the very best O-Gauge models I had ever seen, so good that, shortly after I unwrappred and ran the first one, I ordered all the other road numbers MTH offered.   

 

DSCN9772

 

My O-Gauge Dreyfuss Hudson: MTH’s Premier PS3 5445 on my mainline near Raton Pass.

 

I ordered road number 5445, a model with Boxpok Hi-Rail wheels and the centipede tender.  I don’t have any other loco with Boxpok wheels, and that long, many-wheeled tender looked interesting.  As the photo above shows it is a particularly handsome locomotive and with the long tender, quite balanced and lovely of line – just a joy to look at. 

 

The model is heavy and looks and feels very well made.  There are the features I expected: sliding hatch covers on the roof of the cab, a fold-down platform between loco and tender, engineer in the cab, and builders plates I can read with a jeweler’s loop, etc.  Streamlined, shrouded steamers do no provide modelers with lot of small details (pipes, attached “stuff&") that can be modeled with intricate detail, and that is somewhat the case here.  So there is not the “Oh Wow!” piping and “separately attached” pieces that impress so much as on MTH’s ATSF Hudsons and Chapelon 241A, 3rd Rail’s steamers, or some of the better Legacy models. 

 

But even so, I was a tiny bit disappointed.  Most of the slots/holes/vents/whatever you call them in the body, that I see clearly are open in photos of the real loco, are just molded recesses – and not very deep recesses, either – on this model.  I had not expected the many hatch covers all over the loco’s body, etc., to be anything but molded in, but I put this model side by side with MTH’s ATSF Hudson 3461, and the edges of the Dreyfuss’s hatch covers, as well as of rivets, ridges and small details in the Dreyfuss Hudson body, etc., are much more rounded than on the Santa Fe loco – molded detail is far less crisp than there.  All in all this just isn’t as impressively detailed a model.  The silver-painted Boxpok drivers don’t look good to me – a bit too shiny and grainy, but maybe that is just me.  The driving rods, etc., are an extremely handsome, shiny graphite color that I like, but the color and particularly the sheen doesn’t work in company with the silver drivers and grey body.  No matter there: ten minutes and some Neo-lube will fix drivers and rods. 

 

I read the instructions, as I always do just to be sure.  There were no surprises, but it’s always a good idea to make sure.  I checked that every switch was in the right position, added a bit of smoke fluid, made absolutely certain the sometimes-troublesome MTH loco-tender coupling with its electric clip was properly connected and fully seated, and put the loco on the track.  I powered up (I run in conventional by the way) and waited for the supercapacitors to charge.  It usually takes about twenty seconds, but I was still waiting for anything – a light, chuffing, anything – two minutes later.  I checked power to the track – a caboose nearby was shining bright.  I put a LC+ GP7 on the track and fired it up – it liked the power fine. 

 

Suffice to say I checked all switches, the connector, etc., even cleaned the section of track it was on, and its rollers and wheels, played with the switches, re-read the manual, etc., etc., etc., before concluding that, alas, this is the first case of “dead out of the box” that I’ve had with a premium-grade loco in eleven years of being back in O-gauge.  Problems – I’ve had some the past, yes.  But dead as a door nail?  Not until now.  So I can’t comment on how it runs or sounds, but there is no reason to assume it’s not as good as the Santa Fe 3460s, which is to say very good, if perhaps not quite as smooth at really slow speeds, and with not quite as dynamic a chuffing sound, as one gets with Legacy.  But then, don’t forget: this is a $1,000 list price loco, not a $1,350 one.  You get what you pay for.  I would like to hear with the whistle sounds like, but not now, it seems.

 

I’ve been criticized on the OGR forums in past because I don’t send problem locos back for repairs under warranty, but that’s the way it is and will be on my railroad, this time and every time if it happens again.  I bought this loco mostly to have a model of it, and I do.  It’s an acceptable model – after I paint the recessed holes/vents/slots/whatever flat black and neolube the drivers, rods, etc., it will look good enough, and so it go on a shelf as shown below, just below my other favorite streamliner, a Legacy N&W J I repainted in Union Pacific grey and armor yellow.  I think the two make an extremely attractive pair of art-deco streamliners as one can see in the photo below.

 

DSCN9779

 

The Dreyfus Hudson doing what it not only does best, but all that it does – look good.  Above it is my Legacy N&W J, custom-painted in UP colors.  They make a lovely pair.  Below it, the absolutely sensational MTH ATSF 3461 – arguably the best model locomotive I have, even considering 3rd Rail locos.  In time I will look into why the Dreyfuss doesn’t run, but not right now.

 

I’ve fixed every loco with issues that I have wanted to fix, so if and when I want to see Miss Dreyfuss run, I’m sure I can cure whatever ails her.  But I’ll be content with a shelf queen for now, and her majesty will stay right where you see her in the photo for now: I run trains about 900 hours a year, I have 125 locos, including some favorite runners (two or the MTH 3460s) that pretty much stay on the layout, so most of the others (even the vision Hudson) get run only an hour or two a year.  The Dreyfuss Hudson would be one of those, and taking up its repair right now just isn’t worth getting those two or three hours to me.  So you see it where it will be henceforth.

 

I would have preferred it run, so I could hear the whistle, but I don’t regret buying it at all: my list of “must haves” is done!.  That alone makes it worthwhile. 

 

Now, if MTH would only ship that propane turbine . . . 

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Last edited by Lee Willis
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The NYC Dreyfus is one of my favorites too. I only have a MTH RK version right now....but always on the look out for a scale loco.

 

On the 'not working' issue.......My first MTH scale PS3 loco was DOA too.

With help from folks here and Mario's Trains I flipped all the micro switches. It seems the 2-3 rail switch may not have been seated in either position or in 2 position. So check whatever yours has. But I could not have a new loco that did not work....I buy dead locos and fix them......bexause I get a fantastic deal....but NEW!?!?!? Have to go back for me!!!

Good luck....I'd hope I'll find a scale Dreyfus someday.

Lee, thats unfortunate this one doesn't work. I have the same engine in Proto2 so passed on the new one. I would be curious if the cars offered would match this engine though. Did you order a set of cars to go with this engine? The engine appears to be painted the same brownish gray as the PS2 model and I have yet to see 20th Century Cars that have matching paint including all to the previous MTH cars.

 

Pete

Last edited by Norton

Lee -- Thank you so much for the wonderful review of what looks like an engine that I should add to my needs...wants...list of motive power.

 

That it arrived DOA however will keep me from buying this model, period, I don't like to fix new things if I buy it new it is because I don't want to fix it. Having to return it to MTH is just the same as fixing it, a pain in the backside, and something that with modern manufacturing and QC should not happen on a $1000+ purchase. Have yet to buy an Apple product that was anything but perfect out of the box, same with LG, and every other consumer electronic I've purchased in the past 10 years. Noting that MTH cannot get their wiring right or parts seated on a board correctly is nonsense, of course they can, they just don't.

 

While you're not sending your back I hope someone connected with MTH is reading this forum, reviews like this will hurt sales of their products, as it should if they or any importer are not meeting the most basic expectation -- a product which functions as advertised.

 

Originally Posted by Lee Willis:

MTH’s New Premier PS3 Dreyfus Hudson

 

When I returned to O-Gauge model railroading ten years ago, I made a list of the locomotives I wanted.  It was a two-tiered list, with a list of model locomotives I would like to have (Union Pacific propane turbine) and a shorter list above that of locomotives I had to have.  Near the top of that shorter list was New York Central’s Dreyfuss Hudson.  I’m not into the New York Central that much – the only other NYC locomotive I have is Lionel’s lovely, feature-rich Vision Hudson.  And while I know it was a very good machine, I’m also not among those many model train enthusiasts who consider the J3a to be the, or among the, best steam locomotives ever made.   But I’m a sucker for Art Deco, particularly Art Deco done right, and there is nothing, not just no other locomotive, but no other building, no set of gates, no monument, no sculpture, no painting, that I think represents Art Deco at its finest more than the Dreyfuss Hudson.  To me, it defines Art Deco, and along with the Cisitalia 202 GT and the Bell 47, is one of the most beautiful, iconic industrial designs ever turned out in any art genre. 

 

And yet somehow, the Dreyfuss Hudson eluded me.  I would see them for sale here and there, but it never happened. 

 

So I was thrilled when Patrick’s Trains told me they were shipping the MTH Premier PS3 model I had ordered.  I had big expectations, too, because MTH’s Premier ATSF 3460 series Hudsons were among the very best O-Gauge models I had ever seen, so good that, shortly after I unwrappred and ran the first one, I ordered all the other road numbers MTH offered.   

 

DSCN9772

 

My O-Gauge Dreyfuss Hudson: MTH’s Premier PS3 5445 on my mainline near Raton Pass.

 

I ordered road number 5445, a model with Boxpok Hi-Rail wheels and the centipede tender.  I don’t have any other loco with Boxpok wheels, and that long, many-wheeled tender looked interesting.  As the photo above shows it is a particularly handsome locomotive and with the long tender, quite balanced and lovely of line – just a joy to look at. 

 

The model is heavy and looks and feels very well made.  There are the features I expected: sliding hatch covers on the roof of the cab, a fold-down platform between loco and tender, engineer in the cab, and builders plates I can read with a jeweler’s loop, etc.  Streamlined, shrouded steamers do no provide modelers with lot of small details (pipes, attached “stuff&") that can be modeled with intricate detail, and that is somewhat the case here.  So there is not the “Oh Wow!” piping and “separately attached” pieces that impress so much as on MTH’s ATSF Hudsons and Chapelon 241A, 3rd Rail’s steamers, or some of the better Legacy models. 

 

But even so, I was a tiny bit disappointed.  Most of the slots/holes/vents/whatever you call them in the body, that I see clearly are open in photos of the real loco, are just molded recesses – and not very deep recesses, either – on this model.  I had not expected the many hatch covers all over the loco’s body, etc., to be anything but molded in, but I put this model side by side with MTH’s ATSF Hudson 3461, and the edges of the Dreyfuss’s hatch covers, as well as of rivets, ridges and small details in the Dreyfuss Hudson body, etc., are much more rounded than on the Santa Fe loco – molded detail is far less crisp than there.  All in all this just isn’t as impressively detailed a model.  The silver-painted Boxpok drivers don’t look good to me – a bit too shiny and grainy, but maybe that is just me.  The driving rods, etc., are an extremely handsome, shiny graphite color that I like, but the color and particularly the sheen doesn’t work in company with the silver drivers and grey body.  No matter there: ten minutes and some Neo-lube will fix drivers and rods. 

 

I read the instructions, as I always do just to be sure.  There were no surprises, but it’s always a good idea to make sure.  I checked that every switch was in the right position, added a bit of smoke fluid, made absolutely certain the sometimes-troublesome MTH loco-tender coupling with its electric clip was properly connected and fully seated, and put the loco on the track.  I powered up (I run in conventional by the way) and waited for the supercapacitors to charge.  It usually takes about twenty seconds, but I was still waiting for anything – a light, chuffing, anything – two minutes later.  I checked power to the track – a caboose nearby was shining bright.  I put a LC+ GP7 on the track and fired it up – it liked the power fine. 

 

Suffice to say I checked all switches, the connector, etc., even cleaned the section of track it was on, and its rollers and wheels, played with the switches, re-read the manual, etc., etc., etc., before concluding that, alas, this is the first case of “dead out of the box” that I’ve had with a premium-grade loco in eleven years of being back in O-gauge.  Problems – I’ve had some the past, yes.  But dead as a door nail?  Not until now.  So I can’t comment on how it runs or sounds, but there is no reason to assume it’s not as good as the Santa Fe 3460s, which is to say very good, if perhaps not quite as smooth at really slow speeds, and with not quite as dynamic a chuffing sound, as one gets with Legacy.  But then, don’t forget: this is a $1,000 list price loco, not a $1,350 one.  You get what you pay for.  I would like to hear with the whistle sounds like, but not now, it seems.

 

I’ve been criticized on the OGR forums in past because I don’t send problem locos back for repairs under warranty, but that’s the way it is and will be on my railroad, this time and every time if it happens again.  I bought this loco mostly to have a model of it, and I do.  It’s an acceptable model – after I paint the recessed holes/vents/slots/whatever flat black and neolube the drivers, rods, etc., it will look good enough, and so it go on a shelf as shown below, just below my other favorite streamliner, a Legacy N&W J I repainted in Union Pacific grey and armor yellow.  I think the two make an extremely attractive pair of art-deco streamliners as one can see in the photo below.

 

DSCN9779

 

The Dreyfus Hudson doing what it not only does best, but all that it does – look good.  Above it is my Legacy N&W J, custom-painted in UP colors.  They make a lovely pair.  Below it, the absolutely sensational MTH ATSF 3461 – arguably the best model locomotive I have, even considering 3rd Rail locos.  In time I will look into why the Dreyfuss doesn’t run, but not right now.

 

I’ve fixed every loco with issues that I have wanted to fix, so if and when I want to see Miss Dreyfuss run, I’m sure I can cure whatever ails her.  But I’ll be content with a shelf queen for now, and her majesty will stay right where you see her in the photo for now: I run trains about 900 hours a year, I have 125 locos, including some favorite runners (two or the MTH 3460s) that pretty much stay on the layout, so most of the others (even the vision Hudson) get run only an hour or two a year.  The Dreyfuss Hudson would be one of those, and taking up its repair right now just isn’t worth getting those two or three hours to me.  So you see it where it will be henceforth.

 

I would have preferred it run, so I could hear the whistle, but I don’t regret buying it at all: my list of “must haves” is done!.  That alone makes it worthwhile. 

 

Now, if MTH would only ship that propane turbine . . . 

Lee, I concur with the Hudson and the Cisitalia (although I prefer the Lotus Eleven over almost any other car), but the flying fishbowl?

 

There were two of them in SoCal and I got to ride one at an air show.  It was all done out in MASH detail and it's a marvelous little bird, but pretty it ain't.

 

Sorry

Originally Posted by Stuart:

I have a question about the side rods on the Dreyfus Hudsons.  Weren't they built with roller bearing side rods?  The model has conventional side rods.  In fact MTH's HO version of these locos has roller bearing side rods.

 

Stuart

 

I believe it depends on the time frame and specific locomotive road numbers. Also note, that the model has the PT type tender, which would date the locomotive AFTER about 1946.

Hi,

 

The NYC Dreyfus Hudsons that were equipped with Boxpok drivers had plain rods.

Those equipped with Scullin drivers had roller bearing rods.  

 

For those unfamilar with the 2 different types of drivers the Boxpok are much more common of a driver (NYC modern Mohawks and Niagaras had them).  Scullin drivers were not that common of a style for the NYC and other railroads.  

 

Boxpok (pronounced "box spoke", not "box pok") had many more openings in the wheel center than the Scullin style. The Scullin style openings were much larger.

 

Steve

I know you must be thrilled with your beautiful new shelf queen. It is a great looking engine. I'm absolutely with you when it comes to dealing with warranty issues. When my 2015 Ferrari California T stopped running less than a block from the house on the way home from the dealership, I just pushed it into the garage. The kids can deal with it some day if they ever want to drive it.

 

However, take a look to see if there is a DCS/DCC selector switch on your locomotive. If it's in the DCC position, that may be the cause of your DOA issues.

 

Gilly

Last edited by Gilly@N&W
Originally Posted by Steam Guy:

pedestal type

Well, not according to the New York Central Technical & Historical Society. According to NYC internal technical specification documents, the designation "PT" indicated "Passenger Tender". There were 6 different "PT" type tenders, i.e. PT-1 through PT-6, the Niagara class 4-8-4 locomotives had the PT-6 tenders.

Originally Posted by Steam Guy:

Hi,

 

The NYC Dreyfus Hudsons that were equipped with Boxpok drivers had plain rods.

Those equipped with Scullin drivers had roller bearing rods.  

 

For those unfamilar with the 2 different types of drivers the Boxpok are much more common of a driver (NYC modern Mohawks and Niagaras had them).  Scullin drivers were not that common of a style for the NYC and other railroads.  

 

Boxpok (pronounced "box spoke", not "box pok") had many more openings in the wheel center than the Scullin style. The Scullin style openings were much larger.

 

Steve

Thank you for the answer about the side rods.

 

Stuart

 

Originally Posted by Gilly@N&W:

 . . .  When my 2015 Ferrari California T stopped running less than a block from the house on the way home from the dealership, I just pushed it into the garage. . . . . .

 

Gilly

Wow. I think I'd called the dealer and have them come and get it and fix it.   But it shows even products with good reputations can have problems.  Most dealers will do that.  I've had a 430M for five years now with no problems at all.  The nearest dealer is 90 miles away but they come and pick it up with a covered trailer, and return in when done.  No doubt I pay for that but given what an oil change costs . . . .  Anyway, it takes the hassle out of it have them work on it. Probably not gonna happen with this loco, though ;-) 

Last edited by Lee Willis

PT tender - yes, "passenger type". Any relation to the late, kinda lamented PT Cruiser?

H-m-m-m-...

 

Well, Lee - congratulations on the NYC Hudson (I have two or three or or four or more...plain and fancy - but it's my favorite loco), and sympathy on the DOA situation. I, too, have had very good luck with my locos over the years (shhh - don't tell anyone - it'll

jinx it), but statistics being what they are...

 

The tooling on this loco is older, I believe. Probably not up to 2104 standards, but you

understand that. I'm not real picky about some things, especially if they got the proper

proportions and "look" correct. You will enjoy it when you get it running. I have

the Lionel TMCC Dreyfuss with Scullins and the 12-wheel tender. It is gorgeous.

====

You mentioned the look of the drivers. Silver certainly was generally correct, but, as

you are thinking about changing their look, let me mention an Alco builders photo

of one of the Boxpok Dreyfuss Century Hudsons. In one of my books. The drivers

were clearly painted the same or very similar gray as the streamlining sheet metal.

Clearly not silver. I have the Weaver brass Century Hudson with Boxpok drivers,

and I intend to make those gray, when I get to it.

 

Just a prototypically accurate idea. 

Lee, I am sorry this engine is not working, Please feel free to ship this engine back to the store so we can correct the problem, these engines should run out of the box. I will pay the shipping back to us. I want my customers to have a perfect product that works.
I always make the sale good for the customer.
Thanks and sorry
Pat
PATRICK'S TRAINS
Originally Posted by Lee Willis:
Originally Posted by D500:

 . . .  The drivers were clearly painted the same or very similar gray as the streamlining sheet metal.

 

Just a prototypically accurate idea. 

Thank you!  I'm going to do this.

 

 

Originally Posted by PATSTRAINS:
Lee, I am sorry this engine is not working, Please feel free to ship this engine back to the store so we can correct the problem, these engines should run out of the box. I will pay the shipping back to us. I want my customers to have a perfect product that works.
I always make the sale good for the customer.
Thanks and sorry
Pat
PATRICK'S TRAINS
Originally Posted by Lee Willis:
Originally Posted by D500:

 . . .  The drivers were clearly painted the same or very similar gray as the streamlining sheet metal.

 

Just a prototypically accurate idea. 

Thank you!  I'm going to do this.

 

 

Patrick - I appreciate the offer, but no, I will keep it here and either fix it or not.  I was very happy with the service and speed you gave me, and I will be back again, probably soon.  

 

Thanks and best regards,

 

Lee

Thanks Lee, you are a great customer.
Pat
Originally Posted by Lee Willis:
Originally Posted by PATSTRAINS:
Lee, I am sorry this engine is not working, Please feel free to ship this engine back to the store so we can correct the problem, these engines should run out of the box. I will pay the shipping back to us. I want my customers to have a perfect product that works.
I always make the sale good for the customer.
Thanks and sorry
Pat
PATRICK'S TRAINS
Originally Posted by Lee Willis:
Originally Posted by D500:

 . . .  The drivers were clearly painted the same or very similar gray as the streamlining sheet metal.

 

Just a prototypically accurate idea. 

Thank you!  I'm going to do this.

 

 

Patrick - I appreciate the offer, but no, I will keep it here and either fix it or not.  I was very happy with the service and speed you gave me, and I will be back again, probably soon.  

 

Thanks and best regards,

 

Lee

 

Originally Posted by Sunrise Special:

Lee,

 

I don't understand...fix it OR NOT?  Are you suggesting that you're fine with it being a shelf queen?

 

Sunrise

I would assume anyone who read the original posting would pretty much have figured that out, and why.  I can't say it better than I did there, so I'll refer you back to the paragraph above, and the one below, the second of the two pictures I posted. 

For that kind of money darn thing should work.And not doa from the fliping box.I would be very p.oed.Back to to mth with some very sharp words.I know you do things differently but again for that kind of money.That locomotive should run like the engzerbunny.I hope you are able to fix it and get to run like you want.

Originally Posted by Lee Willis:

I would assume anyone who read the original posting would pretty much have figured that out, and why.  I can't say it better than I did there, so I'll refer you back to the paragraph above, and the one below, the second of the two pictures I posted. 

I got it. Did you even recheck to see if there is a DCS/DCC switch? I know you run conventional, but DCC is DC and if the switch is in the wrong position, the darn thing won't even power-up. Been there, done that.

 

BTW does "Benzina Basso " mean anything important???? Still trying to figure out this Italian Super Car. Some times the simplest things, are the most obvious!

 

Glad I kept the C5 Vette. At least I've got a ride to work in the morning.

 

Gilly

 

Gilly

Last edited by Gilly@N&W
Originally Posted by PATSTRAINS:
Lee, I am sorry this engine is not working, Please feel free to ship this engine back to the store so we can correct the problem, these engines should run out of the box. I will pay the shipping back to us. I want my customers to have a perfect product that works.
I always make the sale good for the customer.
Thanks and sorry
Pat
PATRICK'S TRAINS
Originally Posted by Lee Willis:
That's what I call super service.
 
I've purchased trains from other train shops in the past, some of whom advertise here and when I bought a train that was defective from them, and there's been more than a few, I call them, and the response is "you have to ship it back to MTH."

 

 

 

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