Need Guidance - Golden Gate Depot - Post War 3-Rail - Southern Pacific "Daylight" Train Composition and GGD Order(s)

I assume you have seen this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ4pjDWWJ1A

It shows the last GGD run of the SP Daylight cars in detail.

The set is typical of most GGD offerings.  In the last run (December 2021), there was a core 8-car set:

• Chair / Baggage
• Chair
• Tavern
• Articulated Coffee
• Articulated Kitchen
• Articulated Diner
• Parlor
• Observation

and then available extra cars, including sets of articulated chair cars and the brass Dome / Lounge.  These all used to be enumerated on the GGD site but have dropped off now that the project has been delivered.

On the secondary market, which is how you'll have to obtain it at this point, sometimes the sets are sold as one big for sale item.  Other times sellers break up the sets and sell off the individual cars.

I think GGD has done multiple runs of the Daylight over the years, so it's not super rare as GGD sets go.  Keep your eyes open on here, the big auction site, various auctioneers and e-tailers that specialize in used high end model trains, etc. and you'll find it.  At least two full sets have become available in the last year to my knowledge.

Also you have a bunch of good choices for motive power.  Lionel has made a Vision Line version of the GS-4 which is fairly easy to find, but you could also go with 3rd Rail E7s / E8s / E9s, or my favorite, Alco PAs in the beautiful Daylight scheme.  SP ran the PAs in both A-A and full A-B-A sets on the Daylight, but also freely mixed their EMD cab units too.  Prototype photos seem to show that the only common denominator was leading and trailing A units, regardless of exactly what each locomotive MU'd together was.

I don't think GGD has any plans to re-run this set again any time soon, but best to check with the source.

Hope this helps.  Have fun and good luck!

Hi Ken,

I bought a Daylight set in the last run: the 8 car base set plus 2 sets of articulated chair cars and the brass dome lounge. The Daylight as a prototypical consist is concerned was a base train of 12 cars (basically what I order minus the dome). Then, as ridership ebbed and flowed through the season, SP added pairs of articulated chair cars as needed. The train generally maxed out at 18 cars.

There have been 2 runs of Daylight cars: 2010 and 2022 (I think). The recent run is a bit nicer in that the trucks have roller bearings and GGD developed a nicer fabric flexible diaphragm to go between the articulated cars.

For motive power, I have a Vision GS-5 paired with my set. Colors aren’t an exact match but it looks good though. GS-2’s would be a good match for a 1937- early 40s era train. The GS-3’s and 4’s would take over from there. The 80” drivers being better suited to keep the schedule. Not sure off hand what year the GS-3’s were bumped to secondary trains but most likely in the few years after WWII. SP also often used 2-10-2’s as helpers up the Cuesta grade.

I attached a short video of my set running on the carpet empire. I was running the dome which isn’t prototypical in a Coast Daylight but is still fun.

Hi @BlueFeather

Jim, first off, it is very nice meeting you albeit via OGR posts! I have been a member now for about 2.5 years, joined with the intention of meeting and interacting with experienced O-gauge fans like you.

Thanks so much for the great 2021 video and notes. Gorgeous cars! I was not aware - but very pleased to see - that GGD had done the articulated cars. I know from my study of SP and Daylight history of their prominence but have only seen in 3-rail the o-gauge single cars from Lionel, MTH, etc. I have sets of Lionel Daylight in 18" aluminum and 21" plastic, but you know what they lack compared to these GGD cars.

If I can find a set, or if / when GGD decides to do a new set, I am ready with steam power. Since Southern Pacific is my favorite railroad I have Vision locomotives (GS-3, GS-4, and GS-5) as well as Legacy (GS-2). My other favorite railroad is Norfolk and Western and have J-class as well as A-class locomotives, along with aluminum and plastic passengers cars.

In terms of secondary market, besides places like OGR and even eBay, and some local-to-me hobby stores ... are there sources to monitor for possible GGD Daylight on sale that you can advise I get plugged into?

Thanks again for taking the time to show and tell about GGD. Very helpful and very inspirational.

Regards, Ken

Hi @Ryan Selvius

I appreciate your reply ,,, and I am very glad to meet you!

I saw from some earlier GGD posts you made this year about current GGD Heavyweights (both pre- and post- war) and your comments prompting GGD for more including Daylight. I am more inclined to the post-war heavyweight style (at least for now) but I am unclear how well or if they apply to Southern Pacific in the Daylight livery, and for what time period - do you know?

Does GGD show any intent for producing Daylight runs again? i would imaging GGD tends to respond to several people asking for a particular road name and style to get a production slotted for a future time frame.

Thank you for your video showing your powerful GS-5 pulling a beautiful and impressive 13 car long Daylight train.

Any suggestions how i can get better connected with the GGD community (in OGR and elsewhere)?

Regards, Ken

@Ken Gillig posted:

In terms of secondary market, besides places like OGR and even eBay, and some local-to-me hobby stores ... are there sources to monitor for possible GGD Daylight on sale that you can advise I get plugged into?

I'd look at specialty online auctioneers like Stout, Alderfer, and Harris Toy Trains.  Stout usually has most of the high end stuff in excellent or better condition.

Occasionally GGD and 3rd Rail stuff pops up on Cabin Fever, but not often.  They do a high volume of auctions compared to the others so you have to keep looking.  They also have the least helpful photos IMO so caution is advised.  It seems to me like a disproportionate amount of beat-up stuff ends up on there, but there are diamonds in the rough too.

Trainz is another place to watch.  Again, very high volume, and sometimes the photos aren't great compared to other places so you really have to know what you're looking at or what could be wrong with a piece.  I personally haven't had wonderful experiences with Trainz' condition descriptions, but others love them, so YMMV (and in their defense, I have gotten a few pieces from them that were advertised as Like New or Mint that really were).

Good luck!

@Ken Gillig Blue Feather listed off all the places I would recommend; add Ebay and OGR forum to the list as well. I have bid on GGD stuff in Stout and Harris auctions. Sometimes it can go really high and sometimes you can get a deal. I’ve bought GGD cars from Trainz and ebay. I check their listings a couple times a week. I don’t search for specific items, just look at all the GGD stuff. 2010 Daylight cars and sets have been coming up for sale a bit more in the last couple years. The only newer set I’ve seen offered up was an OGR user a few months ago; don’t know if its still available or not; price was steep but not unreasonable.

As for Daylight heavyweight cars, this is a research can of worms. The only full heavyweight train was the Daylight Limited which was pulled by Pacifics and Mountains; before the train was streamlined and the orange/red paint. Later on, some of the other Daylight trains had certain cars that were heavyweight or modernized heavyweights. The San Joaquin Daylight had a few iterations of heavyweight baggage and postal baggage cars as well as heavyweight diners in protection service for the triple unit. The Lark also had a similar arrangement. I haven’t researched the Shasta since that isn’t a train I intend to model.

Some of the Harriman heavyweights were painted in Daylight. There were a few baggage and postal baggage cars. From what I can tell, no heavyweight coaches or sleepers were painted Daylight. Some diners/lounge cars were but I’m still researching that.
The SP Historical & Technical Society did a fantastic 5 volume set on passenger equipment; this has been my primary reference material. The books are all out of print now but can usually be found for fair prices (still pricey books though so they’re aren’t for the casual SP fan).

Thanks @Ryan Selvius and @BlueFeather for your added comments and suggestions for who/where I can monitor for finding an SP Daylight set, ideally the 2010 set. Part of the fun is the research and learning, as well as the hunting until a good find is made.

I will look forward to updates you have, and l will provide some myself, as time goes on!

Incidentally I live in northern Illinois - suburb called Lake Forest. Part of my drive in trains now besides for myself is my son and his three children (ages 6, 8, 12) to experience trains with today's products and technology (that i never had younger) and mix in some of my post-war Lionel. Great fun, and hoping to get one or more grandkids hooked on trains.

Happy New Year!

- Ken

Here's your best research source, a book:

Southern Pacific, Vol. 1:  Daylight, Train 98-99, by Richard K. Wright

Since you seem to be new to the hobby, do not faint, but this is a really good book that has everything you are seeking, and you can get a used copy for around $100, sometimes less.

If you can afford GGD Daylight cars, then you can afford the ultimate book about the train too.  Hope this all works out for you.

Hi Tom,

Thank you for the book suggestion.  I will get it ASAP. Looks like great info and pictures, on engines, passenger cars, and route stops and schedules.

in fact, just stopped and ordered from eBay … a new copy.

Thanks again!

-Ken