need help with lionel smoke unit

do you know how to use a ohm meter?. you can unsolder one end of the smoke resister and check it on ohms, probably read anywhere from 6 ohms I don't know exactly but should not read open. if the resister check ok, you probably have a bad FET, or SCR not sure what Lionel use's but mth uses FET'S  on the smoke control board is open ,if it was shorted the heater would be on all the time!

Alan

i may have put to much smoke fluid in,because smoke was coming out underneath,on the sides,i then took the shell off & unscrewd the top of the smoke unit & with the smoke coming out i must have touched  the side of the smoke unit with the resister,now it won't smoke at all,the fan is spining but the resister isn't getting hot,did i short out the resister.

My guess is when you ground the smoke unit you blew the smoke control board! Try getting s hold of GGG or Marty FitzHenry they can get you the board and maybe the parts to fix the board!

Alan

I just checked the smoke unit again & i put the engine on the track,powered it up with the smoke unit on & i noticed that there were sparks from the resister,but it would not heat up,also i noticed that some of the windings on the resister were broken,take notice of the charred board,it looks like i may have to get a new board anyway,is this hard to do?

I have the resistor if you need it, or you can ship the smoke unit and I can change it and test it.  G

No need to replace the board, the resistor is cheap and easy to change.

gunrunnerjohn,Can you tell me what size resister i would need,& is there a positive & negative side to the resister,& if there is a positive & negative side how would i know which side on the board each would go? I can change just the resister if thats what the problem is,other than that i don't how to do anything else,& would Radio Shack have it?  

                                  Thanks for your help. 

There is no positive or negative.  We just need to make sure no trace damaged too.  As I e-mailed you, I suspect the ACREg may be an issue too.  That is probably the package in heat shrink at the front of the engine.  It may be passing full voltage and burning up the resistor.   G

George is probably right, the most common failure when they overheat that much is the smoke regulator.  A closer inspection of the smoke unit PCB is also warranted to insure nothing will prevent it from functioning with a new resistor.

The resistor is an 8 ohm unit, the OEM part is available from Lionel.

If the PCB is bad, there is an alternate smoke unit that you can get as the one for that locomotive is unavailable.  I didn't find a listing for just the smoke PCB which sometimes is available separately.

Thanks to all who responded,i have decided to try changing the resister & see if that's what the problem is,if it is anything more than that i don't know if it is cost effective to have someone else change any more parts,i will decide later on what i want to do.

           Gunrunnerjohn,thanks for posting the photos,if the resister doesn't do the trick,i may use this engine as a test piece for me to see what i am capable of doing,we will wait & see what happens,other than the smoke problem,this engine runs perfect.

Sadly, the smoke regulator is a fairly common failure item in many of these, especially earlier ones that didn't heat-sink the triac. 

From this picture, I really think the regulator is gone.  That's a lot of heat for a defective resistor to put out.

John,Is the smoke regulator in the front of the engine covered with shrink wrap,& in the pictures you posted is the smoke regulator one of them?,if i can see what one looks like i may try & change it myself,it could be a good learning experience for me.

Without a closer look, it's hard to say which of the two pieces denoted by the arrows are the smoke regulator.

I am pretty sure it is the front one as I mentioned in the e-mail.  This engine uses a ODY motor driver and has the harness with 5V regulator.  That is usually closer to the motor driver board.  The ACREG is usually closer to the smoke unit.

Trace wires from the front package to see if at least one if not 2 wires don't go to the smoke unit and at least one to the smoke switch.

G

COntact Alex Mallaie. He has repaired a few smoke units for me. He is in Staten Island

L. I. Train, Alex has repaired a couple off my engines for me,he is the best when for making repairs to engines,& what a great person to deal with,but i would like to try this myself & see if i can fix it,there is a lot of satisfaction when you do something yourself,thanks for the suggestion.

George,I did what you said,& it looks like the wires go just underneath the smoke unit,so i took the shrink-wrap off & took some photos to see if you ,or gunrunner john can verify if this is the smoke regulator,there is a short piece of black wire that isn't connected to anything,i don't know if it has a purpose or not,thats just the way it was when i took the shrink wrap off,any help would be appreciated.I have taken a better photo of the black wire that is connected to the baord on only one end,can anyone tell me where the other end is suppose to be connected to?,this could be what is causing  my problem.

That is indeed the regulator.  There are two grounds, so sometimes the one ground isn't connected.

John,I looked on the lionel web site & i tried to find the part #,but every time i tried i came up empty,i don't know if this still available  from lionel,do you happen to know the part #,or another place i could order one?

That is the Reg.  Here is your page for your engine.  Item #3.

Your parts in the mail.  G

http://www.lionel.com/Customer...5a-a4c8-4739ced6322c

Here's the direct link to the regulator.

http://www.lionel.com/Customer...;submitButton=Search

John,Thank you for the link,i had a hard time trying to figure out how to do that,i still don't know how,one of these days i will have to ask how this is done. I just ordered the regulator from lionel,i sure hope i can do this,,this is my first attempt at a major repair such as this, i will let you guys know how it turns out.

Well, the 8 ohm resistor just solders in the same position as the existing one, then the regulator just splices into the wires from the old one.  Should work out pretty easily.

My link not good enough G

Knowing you model number is the key.  I did a search on your Engine type and road number to get the GP listing then found it.  Using the model # I sent you gets you directly to that parts page.  G

My link not good enough G

Your link wasn't there when I was writing the message.

Both of you guys have been a great help to me,as well as everyone else who responded,i wish i knew 1/2 of what you guys know,then i might be able to help someone else with there problem,so i appreciate greatly what you have done for me.

      Now i have one more dumb question,this should be easy for you guys,is the voltage regulator just for the smoke unit?,if the repairs i do do not fix my smoke problem,what would happen if i just cut the regulator off & forget about the smoke unit?,just curious .

The regulator is just for the smoke unit, it doesn't affect anything else in the locomotive.

Truthfully, you could just modify the smoke unit to have a 22 to 27 ohm resistor and wire it directly to the R2LC output.  That's how it is done in many TMCC diesels.  The regulator just allows you to have variable smoke output levels.

Thanks John for a quick response ,i hope the fix that i am doing does the job,we will know soon,the regulator that i ordered from lionel last night has already been shipped,fantastic service.If i have to modify the smoke unit,i would need help with that also,i don't even know which one is the board you mentioned,but i may be able to learn with help from the forum.

Because this unit uses the Regulator that gives 3 levels of smoke, L, M, H they also decided to change the Input voltage to the smoke unit and there for could use a lower resistor element.  In your case 8 ohms.

As John says you can do away with the Regulator, but then you need to find the Mother board smoke connector point, and install a wire and send that to the smoke unit.  But since the R2lC voltage will be higher, you need to raise the resistance of the element to 27ohms.  Otherwise the element will burn out in fast fashion.

Not hard to do, but does require much more disassembly of your engine to identify items.  If your close to Alex, or someone familiar maybe they would help you (show you) while you do it.

Or bring it to York and I can show you.  G

GGG, George,I do live close to Alex,as a matter of fact he has repaired a couple of engines for me,& as usual he did a great job,he is the best lets see what happens when i get the parts,then i will see if i want to go any further.