Need Help with TMCC/DCS

Gregg,

Thanks! 

At least I'm slightly on the right track, as I did the following over the weeked:  moved the wire off the U connection to the outer rail directly; started loco in a different location.  Had it set up for 128 speed steps, but then also changed it to 32 (or whatever the lower number is) after reading somewhere on this forum that 128 is only recommended under some particular set-up and not my DCS/TMCC situation.  In any event, none of those things made any diff.  I will try the other things you've suggested.  Thanks again.

Barry - OK, will start from scratch - again - and see what happens.  Thanks again.

Peter

I'd suggest taking the locomotive and the command base elsewhere and testing.  Failing that, just slap down a circle of track and test on that.  I don't think this has anything to do with DCS or using the DCS remote.  Your problems are from the TMCC command base out.  The fact that you use the DCS remote for control is just a footnote for this issue.

Debugging is just a process of eliminating variables until there is only one left.

John,

Willing to do whatever, but not sure I follow.  I have a TMCC base only.  I hook it up to my DCS and use the DCS remote.  The loco works in conventional.   

Unfortunately the engine's   speed steps (128 if used) must be set up each time the layout is powered up. There's no way to lock them in the engine with a dcs remote. .What's the TMCC address, That's the one you need to know if running with cab-1 or 2 and eventually with the dcs remote when adding the engine.

First off, I'd forget about setting the speed steps to 128, just get it running with TMCC first.  The symptoms are telling me that there's a communication issue between the locomotive and the TMCC command base.  Since the locomotive worked properly on a Legacy base, my finger tends to point to the TMCC base.  As I stated previously, we just had the exact same scenario in the Legacy/TMCC forum, and it was a TMCC command base frequency tuning issue.  These bases are pretty old, and the prospects of them drifting off frequency is pretty significant.

The totally separate section of track was to eliminate one variable, that being the existing layout.

I forgot to mention one thing, The Lionel command base power adapter must have 3 prongs and be  plugged into a properly grounded  wall outlet. That's easy to check.

Hey John, We have TMCC engine that won't move unless set to 128 but I agree with you, there's something else going on.

I've never seen that happen, I've run a bunch of TMCC locomotives with the DCS remote.  I agree that if they are so equipped, they run better with 128 steps, but they should run just assigning them to the remote.

To check the brick, you can check the continuity from the 3rd prong of the brick plug to the outside of the barrel of the power connection.  They should be connected.

Set the address so you know what it is. The procedure for using the DCS remote is pretty much the same as just entering an existing one into the remote, just change the position of the RUN/PGM switch so the new address can be written to the locomotive.

However, the headlight flickering indicates a signal strength issue.  Are you sure the antenna is plugged in properly inside the locomotive?

I wonder if changing the address to one you know first on the locomotive, make sure it's responding to that under TMCC Cab1/Legacy properly, then do the setup in DCS ... that way you know for sure about the locomotive under TMCC control.

Peter,

Start fresh and post a diagram of how you have DCS and the TMCC Command Base wired to your layout.

Then, give us a step-by-step procedure of what you are doing, step-by-step.  Don't leave anything out, from when you put the engine on the track to when you turn the layout on, in the exact order.  That's about the only way folks here are going to be able to help.

First - thanks ever so much for all the support - I really appreciate it. 

By the way, the new issue (although I was experiencing this before, but it's confusing and frustrating) - I put power to the track and half the time the loco acts like the power is off.   

Here are the exact steps I did:

• Put switch to "Program" on loco.
• Turn power on and put 18v to track.
• Program engine into remote. 
• Then I power down. 
• Then I put switch on loco to "Run." 
• Then I put 18 v to track. 

Loco acted like there was no power to track.  So I shut everything down and re-powered and restarted.  Same thing.  Third time, the loco came on, idling with front headlight flickering and smoke stack emitting smoke.  Completely non-responsive to all commands, although TMCC base red lights goes on for a split second every time I attempt a command.  

I have a 8' section of stranded 14 AWG running from the terminal block to the track on which the loco is sitting. 

I have MTH banana jacks connecting terminal block to TIU and TIU to Z4K. 

I have a stranded 16AWG connecting TIU "Fixed Out 1" to TMCC Track U screw.  (And the loco is obviously sitting on track 1, or nothing else would work - hee hee). 

Keep in-mind that I am having zero problems with my other Legacy engine under these exact conditions.  

I might have missed something, but I don't think so...     

Peter

I still think you need to find a way to test the TMCC command base independently.  That one is still my top suspect.

Peter,

Some comments regarding what you last posted:

• There is absolutely no need to put the switch in "PROG" when adding the engine. The engine doesn't even have to be on the tracks at all when it's being added. It fact, the engine can be in a box when you add it for all DCS cares.
• When you add the engine, you must enter the engine's actual TMCC address when requested to do so, i.e., "TMCC=".
• When requested to enter the TIU number, you must enter the one to which the TMCC command base is connected
• The command base's "one wire" must be connected to all of the TIU's Common (black terminal) channel outputs that are to be used for TMCC operation. These Common lines are not connected internally within the TIU (except in the case of the very first TIU, the Rev. G).

Barry, does connecting the black lead to the layout track common to which all the TIUs are connected accomplish the same thing as connecting it to the common on the one TIU?

does connecting the black lead to the layout track common to which all the TIUs are connected accomplish the same thing as connecting it to the common on the one TIU?

Yes, however, the point at which this is done should be on the output side of the TIU in order to prevent the TMCC/Legacy signal from passing throughout the DCS signal generators.

Barry, the only reason for putting the TMCC locomotive in PGM is because he has some doubts as to the actual TMCC ID.  You're right that if you know the ID, you don't have to put it in PGM, and I almost never do.

John,

Barry, the only reason for putting the TMCC locomotive in PGM is because he has some doubts as to the actual TMCC ID. 

Regardless, there's no reason at all to ever have the engine on the tracks when adding it. There's no facility in the add process to change the engine's DCS ID#. If one desires to do so, that is accomplished using the following:

Menu/System/Engine Setup/Edit Engine/Edit Engine Address

I think you may have the wrong TMCC address, read Barry's last post and try the edit, You have the engine  added to the remote(although it doesn't work) now edited the address. follow the on DCS remote's  screen directions, if all goes well you should get 2 whistle blasts indicating the new TMCC address took. TMCC engines add to the lowest available spot on he dcs remote , however they also end up in the inactive list. If the new tmcc address doesn't take you're back where you started.

As Barry pointed out, you should try changing the locomotives TMCC address after adding it to the remote.  This will insure you are actually talking to the locomotive with the proper TMCC ID.

Does it need to be on the TIU to which the cable from the TMCC unit is attached?

No, it does not.

As an update, I brought the loco to someone in the area who also has Legacy and they put the loco through its paces.  First try - everything worked fine.  Then I got the bright idea to ask him to power everything down and retry a couple more times (given my issues are sporadic). On second attempt, the engine acted as though it wasn't receiving power - just sat there dead.  On third try, everything worked fine.  On fourth and fifth tries, it fired up but would not accept commands.  Sixth try, it was dead.  Seventh try everything worked fine.  I also tested both my track and his with my multi-meter, but track was receiving 18v even when engine seemed dead.  Also, my R16 engine continues to work perfectly on my layout and the one on which I tested the Southern loco last night. 

And there you have it, the problem has been isolated.

Perhaps it's time to sent it to eBay .....

Is that where old engines go to die?

eBay was the presumed fate of a few of the locomotives which found their way from the hovels of east Bay to the Cabin Lake & Western ... and from there to a repair facility for a diagnosis and fix.

I got a kick out of one guy I talked to about repairing one locomotive with when his first question was asked ...

"Does it work?" ...