New Camelback Legacy Locomotives not responding to my Cab2 remote

Well, the obvious issue is not having the right TMCC address to connect to them with the Legacy system.

Turn the RUN/PGM switch to PGM.  On the Legacy CAB2, Select ENG, ##, SET.  The ## is the desired TMCC two digit address.  When you press SET, the whistle should sound.  Turn the RUN/PGM switch to RUN, and then use ENG, ## to select the engine.  You should be off and running.

I forgot to ask, what are the exact models of these engines?  If they're TMCC models, there is an additional step required.

Hi @gunrunnerjohn, Thank you for the fast response.  They are the Legacy Camelbacks released last year.   Interesting additional data (maybe not interesting).  I tried the process of setting the engine IDs and when I push set, no sound (whistle/horn).  Another question, perhaps related… When I power up the track to 18, no sound from the tenders.  If I then pick then up  and put them back on the track, then sounds at least begin…

Try ENG 99 and see what happens. Lionel uses that number for the service dept, so they don't have to guess or change the number you set it to.

Doug

Hi @trnluvr, thanks for joining in! Obviously I need the help.  I turned on the track, got it to 18 and pressed ENG 99 hit startup and no reaction.  
Just to make sure it still had some life, I accessed it again from the Bluetooth app and it worked fine.  I have definitely not created a bonding relationship between these two locomotives and my Cab2…

Does the Bluetooth switch need to be in the off position when using cab 2?

Hi @romiller49, the manual said that both controllers can work at the same time.. However, I tested with Bluetooth off any  and had the same lack of activity.  I’m staying optimistic that I caused this and not these trains need some type of repair… I can’t believe both would have an issue… Thanks for the suggestion!

The BT switch does not affect Legacy command operation.

Hi @gunrunnerjohn  So, being new to Legacy,  When I power on the track, neither of the two tenders start up if they are attached to the engine.  If the tenders are sitting alone on the track, they startup up when the track is turned on.  If they are attached to the engine, I need to lift the tender off the track and then put it back down to have it start up.  Not sure if that helps… Just trying to understand why the locomotive likes Bluetooth, but not my Cab2..

That's correct operation, the Legacy locomotives should come up dark and silent if there is a TMCC/Legacy track signal on the tracks when powered up.

Your problem sounds like they're not responding to the Legacy commands.  If you've tried ENG #99 without success, something is wrong with the engines.  That assumes other Legacy/TMCC engines work normally on the same tracks with the same command system.

As mentioned above, do other engines run with the same controller on the same track? Providing the item number always helps too, especially if an engine has been produced multiple times.

@gunrunnerjohn, @BobbyD These 2 camelbacks are my only legacy engines.  

Well, you first have to narrow down the options, how about taking at least one of these to another layout with TMCC/Legacy and seeing if it's a layout issue or a locomotive issue.  Given the fact that two of them are failing, my guess is there is an issue with the command system or your operation of it.

@gunrunnerjohn Agreed, I’m more inclined to believe it is me or the layout vs 2 new locomotives… I’ll take one back to the shop I purchased them from and have them test it.  They are good people….

A good first step, and I'd take both of them with you.  If both work at the shop, then we can work on why they don't work at your location.

I reread your first post and you say your LCS devices are working fine, so that tells me the remote is talking to the base and sending commands to them thru the serial data side.

How do you have the single wire from the base connected?

Doug

The engines are coming up dark and silent, so it appears he has a track signal.  Also other stuff he's running like the command switches are also using the track signal.

@gunrunnerjohn, Yeah, you are right I should bring both.  Forgive my ignorance, but if the locomotives coming up silent is “normal” for my configuration and I’m able to control the TMCC Gantry crane as ENG 30… I’m not sure why the locomotives are somewhat connected by coming up silent, but not reacting to any commands.  I tried to do a reset of the locomotive and that that did not go well either.. When I tried to assign the Train ID I did not get a whistle.. Sorry for what might be dumb questions.   I enjoy trains and while I want these to work, I also what to know why they don’t work…  Your shop is about an hour away from me, based on how I do with my local shop I may drop by…

If you want to drop by sometime, send me an email to my profile address and I'll supply you with an address.  I can positively tell you if your locomotives are working.  If you do that, I'd consider bringing the Legacy system along as well, that can also be tested and configured.  Given the other facts here, that should be enough to surely get them working or positively identify what the exact issue is.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The engines are coming up dark and silent, so it appears he has a track signal.  Also other stuff he's running like the command switches are also using the track signal.

John, I didn't realize he had command control switches and assumed he was using the ASC-2 for them. I was just thinking maybe he had a bad or loose connection and making the signal weak. When powering the track the engine see's just enough signal to realize it's in the command environment but not enough for commands?

I wonder if the run/program switches are backwards.

On the bright side he gets to see your beautiful layout and run some trains.

Doug

@trnluvr posted:

On the bright side he gets to see your beautiful layout and run some trains.

Maybe even the Camelbacks!

Hey Guys (@gunrunnerjohn & @trnluvr), After @gunrunnerjohn’s last note it made me think perhaps I need to deconstruct my layout and try and find the culprit.   When I did that, it seems my Legacy Powermaster (w/2x 180 Bricks) was the problem child.  I replaced (for testing purposes) the Powermaster with my CW-80 and now everything works.  I realize that is not a long term solution, but at least I know the Camelbacks work!  Now to understand the Legacy Powermaster…  Who’s idea was it to jump on all this cool train technology  

Not sure why the Legacy Powermaster blocks TMCC signals, does it work otherwise?

I think I may have a similar problem. My Lionel #1967 NYC steam engine does similar except that it runs forward and reverse ONLY when I push and hold down the Boost slide/button on the remote. If I let it go the engine continues on for a few feet then comes to a stop until I push / hold 'Boost' agaim.
I have another engine that this happens with also (the President Harrison steamer). They run but only but very intermitantly with the red speed control wheel. And when I say very intermittentlay I mean like maybe once a month it will somehow connect using the red wheel but not for long. I can spin the wheel all afternoon and nothing and from inches away from bothe engine and base unit too.
As I rotate the red wheel on the remote clockwise I occasionally see that the 3rd light (of the center 3 lighs on the console)  blinks occasionally while I'm turning the wheel but most of the time I get no engine movement. The sounds and lights all work fine though and smoke too. I get the station announcements also.
This situation is beginiing to remind me of the old Bugs Bunny / Gremlin routine, and guess hwo plays Bugs ?  I'm just about at the point he was when he pulled out the hammer.
Anyhow, anyone have any ideas what could be wrong ? I have the Lioinel Legacy running through (or with ?) my MTH Z 4000. I also use the MTH TIU (one wire from the Lionel to the track) set up. I've tried re-setting them to factory (both engines), erassing everything in memory and re loading the engines and still no luck.
I've wondered just how that light on the Legacy base should look when one is spinning the red wheel clockwise to accelarate the engine ie: Is the purple/blueish light (that center set of 3 lights / light to the right end of the 3) supposed to flash/blink continuosly while the red wheel on the remote is being rotated or should it be a solid lit purple/blue or what ?
I tried to include all the info I can think of but its late, I'm exhausted and it won't suprise me to find out that I've left out some crucial point when describing my set up and / or actions needed to diagnose but I did my level best. I'd greatly appreciate any ideas !!
Thanks in advance.

How did you set up the powermaster when you installed it?

Doug

I would bring it to a hobby shop that has a Legacy system and start from there.

Multiple locomotives malfunctioning clearly indicates to me that it's most likely a layout issue and not the locomotives.  I'd connect the transformer directly to the track and see if it works that way.

As to the set up, I just followed the instructions. I just rememberd that the President Harrison engine worked fine when I first got it. What I'm wondering about is does the hand held remote and the base work together properly judging by my description- that the light on the base (that 3rd light that blinks as I increase the speed with the red wheel on the remote) ? The Lionel remote was a '2nd hand' purchase off of epay about a year ago.
I just noticed that when I turn the wheel couter clockwaise that the purple / blue light on the base blinks approx 50% more of the time. As I turn it counter, the base seems to communicate (if that is what the rapidly blinking light is suppose to indicate) more than when I turn it clockwise BUT there is no more response when being spun counter. Does anyopne know if that light rapidly blinking as I described in my first post what others see when they operate theirs ? What do others see when watching the base unit while increasing/decreasing the speed with the large red wheel on the remote ? Mine very intermitently lights at all, even when I hold the remote right against the antena of the base unit and the engine - all 3 only inches apart. I'm hoping that someone here who has the remote themselves can tell me what they see when they turn the red wheel in either direction - what does that 3rd light on the remote indicate and how does it work  on theirs - does it blink continuosly as the wheel is being spun ? If yes, then there is my problem. Maybe too much info so I'll break it down to this:

When turning the wheel to move the engine, what do you see happen on the base unit (the indicator light(s) ?

I live in a remote area, there are no hobby shops close by although there is one maybe an hour or so drive from me. I'm hoping to avoid that right now, maybe when the weather improves. Not lookig for sympathy but I am what the kids call 'old' with sig health issues. I drive as little as possible. Thanks again.

When I spin the throttle wheel, the right hand LED blinks for each detent of the throttle in either direction.  As long as I'm moving the big red knob, the right hand LED is blinking.

Good morning gunrunnerjohn and thank you for your response (as well as PRR1644A). I keep two power connectors wired into my Z4000 so I can quickly go from conventuinal to digital.
I just tried the conventional hook up again and both engines fire up, start up sounds etc and my old school Lionels run just fine.

And don't forget, both the #1967 and the President Harrison engines run forward and reverse when I push down and 'up' the 'Boost' button, as long as I hold it. The second I remove my finger from the Boost button, the engines slow down and stop.

I have to believe this is something with the layout wiring/configuration and not the locomotives.

Ok, thank you very much for your time and consideration.

If the next time someone who has a Lionel Legacy remote set up uses the remote, could you please look down at the base and tell me what the lights do, if anything,  when you spin the large red wheel on the remote (that makes the engine 'go' forward/reverse) clock or counter clockwise ? Does it blink rapidly or stay a solid color ? If so (lights up), is it contuous or blinking light? Thank you again.

@4_Sticks posted:

As to the set up, I just followed the instructions. I just rememberd that the President Harrison engine worked fine when I first got it. What I'm wondering about is does the hand held remote and the base work together properly judging by my description- that the light on the base (that 3rd light that blinks as I increase the speed with the red wheel on the remote) ? The Lionel remote was a '2nd hand' purchase off of epay about a year ago.
I just noticed that when I turn the wheel couter clockwaise that the purple / blue light on the base blinks approx 50% more of the time. As I turn it counter, the base seems to communicate (if that is what the rapidly blinking light is suppose to indicate) more than when I turn it clockwise BUT there is no more response when being spun counter. Does anyopne know if that light rapidly blinking as I described in my first post what others see when they operate theirs ? What do others see when watching the base unit while increasing/decreasing the speed with the large red wheel on the remote ? Mine very intermitently lights at all, even when I hold the remote right against the antena of the base unit and the engine - all 3 only inches apart. I'm hoping that someone here who has the remote themselves can tell me what they see when they turn the red wheel in either direction - what does that 3rd light on the remote indicate and how does it work  on theirs - does it blink continuosly as the wheel is being spun ? If yes, then there is my problem. Maybe too much info so I'll break it down to this:

When turning the wheel to move the engine, what do you see happen on the base unit (the indicator light(s) ?

I live in a remote area, there are no hobby shops close by although there is one maybe an hour or so drive from me. I'm hoping to avoid that right now, maybe when the weather improves. Not lookig for sympathy but I am what the kids call 'old' with sig health issues. I drive as little as possible. Thanks again.

Does that mean you already had a base unit and then added a remote ?

If so, are the base and remote both set to the same channel ?

They both came together in the same box but 'used'. At one point I did go through trying different channels as I do have several X-10 units around the place and a Chromecast for my pc / TVs. I've made sure they were disconnected and then tried going through the channels but I have to say that I wasn't real confident / confortable trying this.  Unfortunatly I can't recall now if I tried this prior to buying the Lionel #1987 and/or Harrison engines.
I'm still interested in hearing what others experience when using theirs  in terms of the lights on the base unit. I guess I presumed that others also use these Lionel Legacy remotea and could tell me what they see on their base when they run their engines

@4_Sticks posted:

I'm still interested in hearing what others experience when using theirs  in terms of the lights on the base unit. I guess I presumed that others also use these Lionel Legacy remotea and could tell me what they see on their base when they run their engines

Here's my observations of the lights on the base:

Green light ( left of center) constantly on.

Yellow light (center) 1 blink on power up and then dark.

Red light (right of center) Your calling this purple/blueish and what your actually seeing is the glow from the fading legacy backlight led and not the actual led for the indicator.

If I press and hold the boost/brake the red light flashes rapidly,release and light goes dark.

Like Gunrunner  posted earlier turn the red knob 1 detent I get 1 flash. Now if I constantly spin it has a constant flash till I stop.

Doug

Thank you trnluvr, that answers my question. My problem has to do with the function of the large , red knob on my remote. Something I remembered last night is that when using the remote to name / number my engines, when turning the wheel each 'click' of the ones I saw on the 'tube seemed to cause a change on the remotes display. Mine doesn't respond like this, it needs several spins to change each letter / number. Its just not as responsive as those I saw on the youtube instructional video. I'm guessing that it has to do with the actual circut or the wheel itself.
That it moves the engines when I push the Boost button kind of atests to this. To be clear, I don't see happen on my base unit what you see on yours.  Looks like another epay purchase mystery solved. I should know better by now but dang it, the price was so good I just had to hit thge 'BIN' yaddayadda. Someone recouped their loss by passing it on to an unsuspecting dummy (me). I think I left him good Feedback too. Oh, the pain ....
Thank you all who took the time to think about my issue and respond here, much appreciated !

Send the CAB2 back to Lionel, right now they're fixing them on an extended warranty.  Call service, and in a few weeks you'll be running your Camelbacks.