New Developments with my new Lionel Rio Grande SD-50 Diesel with TMCC

It takes off in command if you don’t have good command signal or if it’s really not a command TMCC capable engine. I’m wondering if that “LionTech command reverse unit” is just an electronic e unit. And the program\run switch is just a non reverse switch.

CJACK, It is a full program unit, I have 3 of these listed in the For Sale Or Trade section and was able to program all 3 when tested them, my recommendation would be to pop the shell off and ensure no broken wires or burned components within the Liontech unit. It is a rudimentary command, neutral, reverse as well as railsounds or diesel horn depending on whether an 18221 or 18222.

He's already stated it's the 6-18221 with command capability.  It's either an LRCU or antenna issue.

Haawk58 posted:

I want to say thank you to all you guys who offered me help with my new old stock Lionel TMCC diesel engine that was not running. I put it in the conventional mode and it would not budge. I then turned off the track power and manually pushed it forward and then backwards over the track until the wheels moved easier. I turned on the power and it started to move very slowly, so I repeated the procedure. I turned on the power again, and I had to grab the engine because it took off like a rocket. Now that it was moving, I tried to put it in the command mode and program it. When I applied the track power it took off again. Now that I have it moving, I need to be able to get it to stay put so I can program it with my remote. Why does it keep wanting to run full speed in conventional and command mode, and how do I fix this new problem?

Why did you start a new thread?  It just confuses the issue!

Sounds like the fix may be a little over your head. These are easy to work on for anyone with experience. Check around your area for a Lionel dealer who should be able to help. 

I have this same SD-50 purchased new when it was first released.    Check your antenna!

The antenna on mine came dislodged after a couple years and some rough usage.

Is run program switch in run mode?  You can lower track voltage to make the speed manageable.  Does it respond to a direction button change?  G

These had a dried up grease issue! If it's been sitting in the box. I would remove the armatures and check.

shawn posted:

These had a dried up grease issue! If it's been sitting in the box. I would remove the armatures and check.

I explained this to the OP on his initial thread .......then he started this thread....but I’m with you Shawn, I’m sure the original problem generated from dried up rock hard grease.....my concern is the OP has tried like heck to get this thing running and being the grease may have been so dried up, he’s cooked the electronics in his attempt....he states he did get it to move, but I’d be concerned what got amp welded in doing so!....😉........Pat 

I've worked on several of these locomotives, and typically it's the oil that has turned to glue on this model -- the grease is usually fine.

The problem sounds like it could be the LCRU1. They're not the easiest to work on, due to some things being hardwired to the board.

If you're adventurous, I've documented how to pull and re-seat the processor on the board in another thread as one possible solution. But if you're not comfortable taking things apart, take it to a service tech.

TRW

PaperTRW posted:

I've worked on several of these locomotives, and typically it's the oil that has turned to glue on this model -- the grease is usually fine.

The problem sounds like it could be the LCRU1. They're not the easiest to work on, due to some things being hardwired to the board.

If you're adventurous, I've documented how to pull and re-seat the processor on the board in another thread as one possible solution. But if you're not comfortable taking things apart, take it to a service tech.

TRW

 

Well, I beg to differ. I only collected about 10 of these units! Everyone of them had hardened grease like concrete. BY THE WAY! White lithium grease was used in the worm/motor gear pocket. You are simply wrong. The wheels and gear pinions may be oiled. Yes, I've seen cases where the oil on the gears got sticky!. On these loco's and vintage....it's concrete lithium grease. I needed a Dremel to remove. He may have also broken away some pieces of dried lithium grease freeing the wheels. But, it is still stuck in there like little pebbles. Unless, he stated the LCRU has a exploded component. I bet ya that's still alive ,too.

shawn posted:

PaperTRW posted:

I've worked on several of these locomotives, and typically it's the oil that has turned to glue on this model -- the grease is usually fine.

The problem sounds like it could be the LCRU1. They're not the easiest to work on, due to some things being hardwired to the board.

If you're adventurous, I've documented how to pull and re-seat the processor on the board in another thread as one possible solution. But if you're not comfortable taking things apart, take it to a service tech.

TRW

 

Well, I beg to differ. I only collected about 10 of these units! Everyone of them had hardened grease like concrete. BY THE WAY! White lithium grease was used in the worm/motor gear pocket. You are simply wrong. The wheels and gear pinions may be oiled. Yes, I've seen cases where the oil on the gears got sticky!. On these loco's and vintage....it's concrete lithium grease. I needed a Dremel to remove. He may have also broken away some pieces of dried lithium grease freeing the wheels. But, it is still stuck in there like little pebbles. Unless, he stated the LCRU has a exploded component. I bet ya that's still alive ,too.

 

Agree 100% with Shawn, EVERY locomotive I’ve encountered from this time period that was not opened by someone had the grease so dried up I could have used a jack hammer to get it out........Pat

"Rio Grande SD50 Diesel Locomotive w/ TMCC with conventional horn and ditch lights. No railsounds. It is sold as-is. ... One of the most common issues is lack of lubrication and grease hardening during idle storage. Lack of oil on the motor’s armature shaft and hardened grease on the worm and drive gears will prevent the …" from a seller on flea!

harmonyards posted:

shawn posted:

PaperTRW posted:

I've worked on several of these locomotives, and typically it's the oil that has turned to glue on this model -- the grease is usually fine.

The problem sounds like it could be the LCRU1. They're not the easiest to work on, due to some things being hardwired to the board.

If you're adventurous, I've documented how to pull and re-seat the processor on the board in another thread as one possible solution. But if you're not comfortable taking things apart, take it to a service tech.

TRW

 

Well, I beg to differ. I only collected about 10 of these units! Everyone of them had hardened grease like concrete. BY THE WAY! White lithium grease was used in the worm/motor gear pocket. You are simply wrong. The wheels and gear pinions may be oiled. Yes, I've seen cases where the oil on the gears got sticky!. On these loco's and vintage....it's concrete lithium grease. I needed a Dremel to remove. He may have also broken away some pieces of dried lithium grease freeing the wheels. But, it is still stuck in there like little pebbles. Unless, he stated the LCRU has a exploded component. I bet ya that's still alive ,too.

 

Agree 100% with Shawn, EVERY locomotive I’ve encountered from this time period that was not opened by someone had the grease so dried up I could have used a jack hammer to get it out........Pat

The best part is the engine shell is easy to take off on these units.

shawn posted:

"Rio Grande SD50 Diesel Locomotive w/ TMCC with conventional horn and ditch lights. No railsounds. It is sold as-is. ... One of the most common issues is lack of lubrication and grease hardening during idle storage. Lack of oil on the motor’s armature shaft and hardened grease on the worm and drive gears will prevent the …" from a seller on flea! This is the same model Non-TMCC with a convention horn! Same design!

 

I remember these engines, from 1990, I believe, the 18221 with Railsounds II, and Liontech Command Reverse Unit, which was what they called the early TMCC. 18222 was conventional. I recall that Classic Toy Trains did a long term review of these after having had and run them for about a year, and the review was very positive. Apparently very good and reliable runners (assuming the oil & grease are OK, apparently )

These engines are the last time Lionel got the Rio Grande orange paint color correct!!! Nothing they've made since has been right!

I'll bow-out now that the cavalry has arrived. Good luck with your locomotive.

TRW

EscapeRocks posted:

I have this same SD-50 purchased new when it was first released.    Check your antenna!

The antenna on mine came dislodged after a couple years and some rough usage.

Did your engine act like mine? Mine will take off like a rocket when I power up the tracks. It won't stay still on the tracks while in the command mode, so I can't program it in with my remote. Could you give me some details about what you did to fix your antenna? I am a novice at this and I just want to do it right.

The symptoms certainly suggest a TMCC reception issue.  While the congealed lube may well be another issue to be dealt with, the lack of the ability program and taking off at full speed as soon as track power is applied with a TMCC  signal on the track clearly says this is not a lubrication failure.

I would recommend you fix the LCRU/antenna issue before you worry about oiling anything.

Ok, I just took the shell of the engine. The antenna is securely mounted to the roof of the engine and the antenna wire is also securely plugged into the board. I did not notice anything unusual on the circuit boards such as corrosion on any leads of the electronic components, I also did not see anything that looked burned or bulged. I tried putting  the powermaster in the command mode and nothing happens. Nothing lights up on the engine, and it does not move. I put my other engine on the tracks and it does not light up or move while in the conventional mode either. When I switch the powermaster to the command mode the engine lights up and takes off like a rocket. I recently bought this powermaster off of eBay from a business that sells trains. They said it was new old stock. I did not have a problem running my steam engine in the command mode, and obviously this diesel engine has no problem getting power in this mode. I wonder if my problems running this engine could be related to this powermaster? I don't know if it could be or not, I just know that neither of my engines will run when I switch my powermaster over to the conventional mode.

Sounds like the LCRU is broken.

Yeah it sounds like your LCRU is bad. You can buy a new one from Lionel for $65. Not to bad for an older board.

Sid's Trains posted:

Yeah it sounds like your LCRU is bad. You can buy a new one from Lionel for $65. Not to bad for an older board.

6108221126

LCRU 1 W/ HARNESS (2 MOTOR-DIESEL) (6108123126)

32

$65.00

That's a GREAT price as they were $60. from Digital Dynamics over 15 years ago!

harmonyards posted:

shawn posted:

PaperTRW posted:

I've worked on several of these locomotives, and typically it's the oil that has turned to glue on this model -- the grease is usually fine.

The problem sounds like it could be the LCRU1. They're not the easiest to work on, due to some things being hardwired to the board.

If you're adventurous, I've documented how to pull and re-seat the processor on the board in another thread as one possible solution. But if you're not comfortable taking things apart, take it to a service tech.

TRW

 

Well, I beg to differ. I only collected about 10 of these units! Everyone of them had hardened grease like concrete. BY THE WAY! White lithium grease was used in the worm/motor gear pocket. You are simply wrong. The wheels and gear pinions may be oiled. Yes, I've seen cases where the oil on the gears got sticky!. On these loco's and vintage....it's concrete lithium grease. I needed a Dremel to remove. He may have also broken away some pieces of dried lithium grease freeing the wheels. But, it is still stuck in there like little pebbles. Unless, he stated the LCRU has a exploded component. I bet ya that's still alive ,too.

 

Agree 100% with Shawn, EVERY locomotive I’ve encountered from this time period that was not opened by someone had the grease so dried up I could have used a jack hammer to get it out........Pat

Like a rock!

modeltrainsparts posted:

Sid's Trains posted:

Yeah it sounds like your LCRU is bad. You can buy a new one from Lionel for $65. Not to bad for an older board.

6108221126

LCRU 1 W/ HARNESS (2 MOTOR-DIESEL) (6108123126)

32

$65.00

That's a GREAT price as they were $60. from Digital Dynamics over 15 years ago!

Lol, near the end DD was blowing these out for $5.00. I believe he could also use a AC ERR board. But, may need to buffer into the. sound board.

Actually, the AC Commander is an excellent replacement for this board, and no need to buffer the serial data, I've done a few of this kind of upgrade.  You get better low speed performance with 100 step mode, and a modern board that's fully supported.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, the AC Commander is an excellent replacement for this board, and no need to buffer the serial data, I've done a few of this kind of upgrade.  You get better low speed performance with 100 step mode, and a modern board that's fully supported.

Where do I get this AC Commander?

Where do you buy an AC Commander circuit board?

Right here: 3rd Rail ERR Order Page.

Here's the ERR home page, you can look at product descriptions, download the installation instructions, etc. ERR by 3rd Rail Home Page.