New GGD 8 car passenger sets

@Bob Harris posted:

OK just to add some more fire for you. The trucks for the Eagle cars  are the 41N type used for all cars except the Budd cars  they would  have the general service type  4 wheel or 6 wheel under the 10/6 slab side sleepers.  It is imperative that these trucks are used for these.

These are the trucks imported by Wasatch models very expressive  about 200 per pair when you can get them.

Bob Harris

The truck types are Definitely out of my expertise. My eyes glaze over and I defer to anyone. I like Correct, properly detailed trucks but for me, when they are painted black I can’t see them very well anyway.  Sorry.  Email this info to Scott to see what is possible !!!  I know this project won’t support $200/car trucks. 

@Will Ebbert posted:

If anybody is knowledgeable about these Crescent, please speak up both here and by emailing Scott. I suggested the sleeper lounges, which was a great change to the lineup but that's about the extent of  my knowledge on the consist. I'd love for the Crescent to be as accurate as possible so please come forward with any info! 

So here’s what I found out regarding the Sunset Limited & PRR pool cars. The Sunset Limited pool service sleeper was an Amtrak 10-6 sleeping car mixed in during the 70’s.

the PRR pool service sleeping car was #8351 “Birch River” this car is in the Altoona RR Museum now. 
l&n pool service sleepers were #3404 “pearl river” & #3411 “Kentucky River” 

both the PRR & L&N pool sleepers were 10-6 sleepers. 

www.rypn.org has some great info. Look up surviving Sou lightweight cars for a list of many of the cars used on the crescent. I’ll email Scott regarding these pool service cars too.

Here is information on the Crescent. After World War II in 1946, Southern Railway along with six other railroads(Western Railway of Alabama, Louisville & Nashville, Atlanta & West Point, Florida East Coast, New York Central, and Pennsylvania Railroad) placed an 141 car order of 11.5 million dollars to Pullman-Standard, Budd, and American Car and Foundry to replenish the Crescent, Southerner, and Royal Palm train sets. The order was placed in 1946 and was not delivered until late 1949 early 1950. Eight different car types were ordered: baggage-RPO, baggage-dormitory, two chair configurations (52&58 seat), dining car, two sleeper configurations (10-6, 1MR-2DR-lounge), and boattail sleeper-lounge observation car.

The Crescent, ran from New Orleans to Montgomery on the L&N; From Montgomery to Atlanta on the Western Railway of Alabama and Atlanta & West Point (The West Point Route); From Atlanta to Washington on Southern; and Washington to New York on the Pennsylvania. Each of the five railroads contributed equipment in approximate proportion to route miles served. Each car was stainless steel lightweight equipment and lettered for its owner using consistent black Gothic font.

Here is the breakdown:

Southern provided the balance of the cars needed. So, a Crescent train could have been all Southern or a mixture of the 5 Railroads. In 1950, the Crescent, normally would have been pulled by diesels on the L&N, E6 or E7; The West Point Route, FP7; Southern E6 or E7 (E8 after 1953), and GG1 on the Pennsy.

Tom

Thanks for the info Tom! So is the kitchen/ sleeper car and separate diner listed on the GGD site correct? I thought the Crescent just had a single kitchen/ diner. 

Hi Will,

I am a little confused by the term "Kitchen/Sleeper" that GGD uses. I do not see that term anywhere in reference to the Crescent from the books that I have. Who knows, I might learn something new. I did notice that the add says" We will be changing the consist based on customer input. Sit tight."

Tom

@Tom Morris posted:

Here is information on the Crescent. After World War II in 1946, Southern Railway along with six other railroads(Western Railway of Alabama, Louisville & Nashville, Atlanta & West Point, Florida East Coast, New York Central, and Pennsylvania Railroad) placed an 141 car order of 11.5 million dollars to Pullman-Standard, Budd, and American Car and Foundry to replenish the Crescent, Southerner, and Royal Palm train sets. The order was placed in 1946 and was not delivered until late 1949 early 1950. Eight different car types were ordered: baggage-RPO, baggage-dormitory, two chair configurations (52&58 seat), dining car, two sleeper configurations (10-6, 1MR-2DR-lounge), and boattail sleeper-lounge observation car.

The Crescent, ran from New Orleans to Montgomery on the L&N; From Montgomery to Atlanta on the Western Railway of Alabama and Atlanta & West Point (The West Point Route); From Atlanta to Washington on Southern; and Washington to New York on the Pennsylvania. Each of the five railroads contributed equipment in approximate proportion to route miles served. Each car was stainless steel lightweight equipment and lettered for its owner using consistent black Gothic font.

Here is the breakdown:

L&N
Number Series	Number of Cars	Dates Builder	Builder	Type	Comments
1120-1121	2	1949	P-S	Bag-RPO
1598-1599	2	1950	ACF	Bag-Dorm
3250-3251	2	1949	Budd	Chair	52 Seat
3252	1	1949	Budd	Chair	58 Seat
2790	1	1949	Budd	Dining Car	48 Seat
3400-3401	2	1949	P-S	10-6 Sleeper	Pearl River, Mobile River
3300-3301	2	1950	P-S	Sleeper Lounge Obs	Royal Canal, Royal Street
	12
W of A
Number Series	Number of Cars	Dates Builder	Builder	Type	Comments
87	1	1949	P-S	Bag-RPO
106	1	1949	Budd	Chair	52 Seat
	1	1949	P-S	10-6 Sleeper	Alabama River
	1	1950	P-S	Sleeper Lounge Obs	Royal Palace
	4
A&WP
Number Series	Number of Cars	Dates Builder	Builder	Type	Comments
68-69	2	1949	Budd	Chair	52 Seat
501	1	1949	Budd	Dining Car	48 Seat
	1	1949	P-S	10-6 Sleeper	Chattahoochee River
	4
PRR
Number Series	Number of Cars	Dates Builder	Builder	Type	Comments
8351-8358	8	1949	P-S	10-6 Sleeper	Birch River, Bush River
					Delaware River, Middle River
					Patapsco River, Raritan River
					Schuylkill River, Susquehanna River

 

Southern provided the balance of the cars needed. So, a Crescent train could have been all Southern or a mixture of the 5 Railroads. In 1950, the Crescent, normally would have been pulled by diesels on the L&N, E6 or E7; The West Point Route, FP7; Southern E6 or E7 (E8 after 1953), and GG1 on the Pennsy.

Tom

This is great info, thanks! And yeah I’ve never heard of a sleeper/ kitchen either. Seems like it would be a really interesting car if it is in fact prototypical for the crescent.

Looking at the info posted here and on RYPN, coupled with my knowledge of preserved cars, I think it's safe to say that the Crescent just used standard 48 seat dining cars. Unless someone can definitively say otherwise, I think revising the offering to include just a single dining (kitchen and 48 seat dining room) would be the most accurate.

I know it's early, but I'd also be interested to know if all the cars in the set will be Southern and the add on cars still be the other RRs or if some other combo is planned. I know I would love to see Western Railway of Alabama cars done if at all possible. No matter what, this set will be great. Thanks @sdmann for making it happen! 

So regarding the crescent here’s what I found from the web regarding the sleeper/ kitchen & sleeper/lounge:

http://www.wataugavalleynrhs.org/crescentharbor.php

The sleeper/ kitchen and sleeper/ lounge cars are actually 1 car..... a sleeper lounge with a small kitchen inside the car. (There were two.  “crescent moon” & “crescent harbor”)

The 14 roomette is actually a 14 roomette/ 4 double bedroom sleeper. Seems like the correct 8-car consist would be:

1: RPO/ baggage

2: Baggage/Dorm

3: 52 seat coach

4: 14-4 sleeper

5: sleeper/kitchen/ lounge

6: 48 seat Diner

7: 10-6 sleeper

8: sleeper/ observation

pool service cars would be 10-6 sleepers from PRR, L&N, A&WP, & W of A.

also seems like extra coaches, 10-6, & 14-4 sleepers would be appropriate.

hopefully this gets us closer, please correct any errors.

One other note. The Crescent observation car prototype was also used on the L&N/ Seaboard “gulf wind” it was lettered for L&N and called “Royal Street” This would be a cool separate sale car.

I believe the kitchen in the sleeper lounges was just used as a snack bar/ grill. The dining car had its own kitchen for actual meals.

@Will Ebbert posted:

I believe the kitchen in the sleeper lounges was just used as a snack bar/ grill. The dining car had its own kitchen for actual meals.

Yeah, the floor plan shows a tiny kitchen used to service the lounge. The link in my above post shows the car floor plan.

Hi DJ & Will,

"Eight different car types were ordered: baggage-RPO, baggage-dormitory, two chair configurations (52&58 seat), dining car, two sleeper configurations (10-6, 1MR-2DR-lounge), and boattail sleeper-lounge observation car."

The 1MR-2DR-lounge that I mentioned above is the "Crescent" series cars. there were 4 of them:

#2350 Crescent City, #2351 Crescent Harbor, #2352 Crescent Moon, & #2353 Crescent Shores.

I have copies of the car diagrams that I would be glad to share with you. Just email me. My email is in my profile.

Tom

@Will Ebbert posted:

I'm in a dilemma as to whether or not I want Scott to do another run of E8s. Southern usually ran 4 of them on the Crescent, and so while the 3rd Rail units would be gorgeous, that's a ridiculous amount of money for me to spend on top of the train itself. I may have to go with Lionel's upcoming release at roughly half the cost.

I went for it.  I bought all four and broke the bank, but I have no regrets 🙈  Can’t wait for the GGD cars to arrive!

Who's cars are these above please?

What a handsome set of locomotives!

Golden Gate Depot is the future of O scale today!  Despite the fact the hobby has lost a good many manufacturers/importers in recent years, as I see it, they have been replaced with professionals like GGD, which as a matter of fact, should be placed at the top of the list!

Re: NdeM Aztec Eagle.  Perhaps Mexico should be considered part of the first "pre-NAFTA" passenger trains that operated during the Fabulous Fifties, joining America's D&H, Canada's CNR-GTW and CPR, all of which served cross border North American destinations on an international scale?

@lionel89 posted:

I went for it.  I bought all four and broke the bank, but I have no regrets 🙈  Can’t wait for the GGD cars to arrive!

They look beautiful! I ordered four of the Lionel Southern E8s and I'll get to open then next week.

That will make a realllllly loooong O scale train--but a beautiful one.

@TrainBub posted:

Yep. T&P and MP are the Texas EAGLE. each consist offers 4 “extra” cars Plus Penn and B&O thru sleepers in MP Eagle colors.

Are you SURE about the PRR thru sleepers? Scott M. wasn't sure as of last week.

I would be in for the "pool cars" if they have lettering for the PRR on their flanks.

@Will Ebbert posted:

They look beautiful! I ordered four of the Lionel Southern E8s and I'll get to open then next week.

Thank you!  Please post a video of your setup when they arrive.  I would love to see.  

@c.sam posted:

Who's cars are these above please?

What a handsome set of locomotives!

Thank you!  Those are the Lionel 21 inch cars.  

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Are you SURE about the PRR thru sleepers? Scott M. wasn't sure as of last week.

I would be in for the "pool cars" if they have lettering for the PRR on their flanks.

The PRR ran Eagle sleepers from Washington, DC to the southwest as well as running them from New York  They were (from DC) ACF 10 and 6 cars. I saw them leaving Baltimore throughout the 1950's. Scott knows this.

R. Heil - Sunset Models / Golden Gate Depot

Here is an image of the Crescent crossing Lake Ponchatrain east of New Orleans

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Are you SURE about the PRR thru sleepers? Scott M. wasn't sure as of last week.

I would be in for the "pool cars" if they have lettering for the PRR on their flanks.

Penn ran 10-6s and 10-5s on the Eagle and B&O ran 10-5s. So far Scott’s reservation page only offers one of these from these 2 roads, the Penn 10-6. For a superb EAGLE  consist, we need the B&O sleeper too. EMAIL Scott to have this B&O car added to the extra cars options/reservations !!!! All these cars are painted like the MP TP cars but have small “Penn” and “B&O” lettering showing ownership at the car ends on letter board that has written large “THE EAGLE”.  This lettering takes the place of the small lettering for “MP” or “T&P”.
Hopefully soon we will see a next updated offering.  Scott so far has added a NDM10-6 (Aztec EAGLE) but it only shows up on the reservation page.

@c.sam posted:

Here is an image of the Crescent crossing Lake Ponchatrain east of New Orleans

The Crescent made a connection in New Orleans for thru sleepers to go to LA on the SP Sunset Limited. Specific named cars were designated for this transcontinental service. Anyone interested in Scott offering these ?  He recently did this for the SF Super Chief cars that were passed on to Penn and B&O. These Crescent cars were mostly identical to any other Crescent car but a few had a spot of modest red SP color. You have to be into thru sleepers or “complete” consists to want these.
EMAIL Scott if interested. The SF, Penn, and B&O fans got what they wanted in the Thru sleeper category.

@rheil posted:

The PRR ran Eagle sleepers from Washington, DC to the southwest as well as running them from New York  They were (from DC) ACF 10 and 6 cars. I saw them leaving Baltimore throughout the 1950's. Scott knows this.

R. Heil - Sunset Models / Golden Gate Depot

Bob, Is the model being built an ACF 10-6 or Pullman 10-6?  You know my reasoning...A Pullman 10-6 could also/maybe be painted/lettered for the Seaboard Air Line.  Any way we could see what diagram/plan is being used so a determination can be made as to placing an order?

When GGD did the Silver Meteor, the Pullman 10-6 was tossed out because of the different roof and fluting designs.  This may be my only chance of getting a Pullman 10-6 "PORTSMOUTH" sleeper.  Even if I had to repaint/letter it myself, but it has to be correct:

Here's the new Lionel E8s. I bought 2 pairs which gives me 4 powered units, 2 of which have sound. I'll eventually renumber one of the pairs, but for now they're both 6901 and 6914. Lionel did a pretty good job on these with road and even several number specific details. 6914 has a Mars light and grab irons while 6901 does not. The sounds are pretty good. These have the updated LRS with 5 horns and bells to choose from. The crew talk has some new additions which are more entertaining even if no more realistic. Overall I'll give these an 8.5/10. The big task will be fixing the pilots and covering to Kadee couplers.

@Will Ebbert posted:

Here's the new Lionel E8s. I bought 2 pairs which gives me 4 powered units, 2 of which have sound. I'll eventually renumber one of the pairs, but for now they're both 6901 and 6914. Lionel did a pretty good job on these with road and even several number specific details. 6914 has a Mars light and grab irons while 6901 does not. The sounds are pretty good. These have the updated LRS with 5 horns and bells to choose from. The crew talk has some new additions which are more entertaining even if no more realistic. Overall I'll give these an 8.5/10. The big task will be fixing the pilots and covering to Kadee couplers.

Beautiful set!

From 1941 to 1968 the Pennsylvania Railroad passenger trains from their Philadelphia Broad Street Station to Penn Station in New York City.  The trains departed on the hour from 6 AM to 9 PM and hence the name "Clockers".  The consists were 3 coaches, 2 parlor, and a diner.  The cars were lightweights with a heavyweight diner.  My thought is that Scott might be able to produce sets using existing tooling.

Jan

http://www.thecoachyard.com/Pa...ent/PRR.Clocker.html

NEWLY UPDATED EAGLE CONSISTS/options posted on Scott’s Golden Gate Depot webpage.  Check it out.
For those waiting for revisions, Time to step up and place your reservation.

Cheers !!!!

@c.sam posted:

Here is an image of the Crescent crossing Lake Ponchatrain east of New Orleans

Sam,

Thanks for the memories!  This is the version of the Crescent I rode on when I was all of about 5 around 1974 from NO to NYC.  Note the Amtrak sleeper towards the back.  While the Southern retained the Crescent until 1979, Amtrak cars would often be part of the mix.  The other tells on the era of this photo is the late scheme Southern Green paint, the large lettering and numbering, and the Southern logo on the nose of the E8s.  All the signs of a 1970's Crescent. 

I clearly remember being in the dome, the room we had which was the family bedroom, and how friendly the porter was. 

Not add to the kitchen debate for this train, but I do know that the circa 1973-1975 version of the Broadway Limited did roster a dinner / crew dorm until replaced by a baggage dorm under the heritage rebuild program.  I don't know the origin of that car unfortunately.

@TrainBub posted:

Yep. T&P and MP are the Texas EAGLE. each consist offers 4 “extra” cars Plus Penn and B&O thru sleepers in MP Eagle colors.

How many prr thru sleepers will be made if i order multiples?

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

How many prr thru sleepers will be made if i order multiples?

That will be up to Scott. I’ve seen GGD labeled box ends for cars with as many as four different numbers. My TRRA H&TS “Pullmans to  St. Louis Missouri Pacific Line” book shows 11 named Penn 10-6 thru sleepers. Lots of choices. Scott can be pretty accommodative. Try him with your request. You may not be alone with wanting multiples !!!  
Cheers 🙂

MP EAGLE - another update !!!

14-4 now added to “extra” car choices !!!

So now you can go for the prototypical consist - sans observation car or opt for the beautiful observation car consist and add a 14-4. Nice Option !!!! 😬  
CHOICE IS GOOD !!! 😜😆🤗👍

@TrainBub posted:

That will be up to Scott. I’ve seen GGD labeled box ends for cars with as many as four different numbers. My TRRA H&TS “Pullmans to  St. Louis Missouri Pacific Line” book shows 11 named Penn 10-6 thru sleepers. Lots of choices. Scott can be pretty accommodative. Try him with your request. You may not be alone with wanting multiples !!!  
Cheers 🙂

Typically there are 2 to 6 numbers per car based upon the number of cars ordered.  Numbers and car names are easy to add to car sets. 

I'm hoping Scott will post an updated Crescent roster soon. The add on cars offered will influence my overall order.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Typically there are 2 to 6 numbers per car based upon the number of cars ordered.  Numbers and car names are easy to add to car sets.

Thanks for some “official” feedback Jonathan. 2-6 is a good option. Numbers and names easy to add is always good to hear !!!

Well this thread has been inactive for awhile so let see if I can kick some life back into it. It doesn’t help that production grinds quite slowly but that just simply the way it is. Run 2 F3s have been delivered and included is my NDM model for the Texas EAGLE into Mexico as the Aztec EAGLE. The GGD EAGLE offering now includes at least one extra NDM car - a 10-6  sleeper. !!!!  These cars were seen as far north as Union Station in St. Louis.  
The NDM F3 is beautiful. I was surprised at the interior detail of the cab too. All in all, a great addition to my EAGLE power.
Cheers !!!

I'd really like an update on the Crescent consist. I know the list is tentative, but there are some changes that need to be made and would hopefully boost reservations.