New Layout Help - For Post War Accessories

I don't think 5x12 is going to be enough to incorporate all of the stuff on your list.

At least you have the dimensions, and the track spacing for the combo units. That's where things get tricky.  Accessories that aren't tied to the track can go on curves or anywhere, just filler.

Opinion: the 497 is a rather dull accessory. For nearly the same footprint, find the 264 lumber loader. The 464 sawmill is better than the 364 log loader. However in both cases, the accessories require reloading.

I've been designing a layout to accommodate as many post war accessories as possible.  I came up with this layout.  It's 5'-6" x10'-6".

To answer your question about the 97 Coal Elevator, you need approximately 14 3/4" between tracks.  

Why not just copy a 5x9 dealer display layout? They were designed to sell trains and accessories, so they have a lot of action in small spaces.

Andrew B. posted:

Why not just copy a 5x9 dealer display layout? They were designed to sell trains and accessories, so they have a lot of action in small spaces.

Where can we find dealer layout diagrams to copy ?

Dealer displays were never "packed" with accessories. Lionel always left room on the layout for imagination. I'm having the same problem as DS Texas has, way too many accessories and not enough acreage.

Dan Padova posted:

I've been designing a layout to accommodate as many post war accessories as possible.  I came up with this layout.  It's 5'-6" x10'-6".

To answer your question about the 97 Coal Elevator, you need approximately 14 3/4" between tracks.  

That's pretty good Dan, but it does sort of miss the originaltwo train request.

The bottom line is he needs a TARDIS for a layout to get it all in. The list either needs to be shorter or the dimensions bigger.

Kind of reminds me of the old Steven Wright joke <best deadpan delivery> "You can't have everything... Where would you put it?"

Dan Padova posted:

Andrew B. posted:

Why not just copy a 5x9 dealer display layout? They were designed to sell trains and accessories, so they have a lot of action in small spaces.

Where can we find dealer layout diagrams to copy ?

I have most of them on DVD. Plans include an overall picture of the display, track plan, wiring schematic and list of track and accessories needed. If you have interest in a particular display layout (identify by the “D-number”) shoot me an email (in profile) and I can send out the plans.

I’m currently building the 5x9 D-105 display and can attest that Lionel did indeed load these with many accessories and trackside signals. The beauty is that they were able to design them in a way that they did not look overly cluttered.

I have a 4x10 and quickly learned that many O gauge operating accessories take up a whole lot of real estate.  For the space you mentioned you'll need to cut back on the amount (as did I).

Big_Boy_4005 posted

Opinion: the 497 is a rather dull accessory. For nearly the same footprint, find the 264 lumber loader. The 464 sawmill is better than the 364 log loader. However in both cases, the accessories require reloading.

 The 364 is recharged by means of an operating log dump car, and the logs can be loaded back into the same car, which makes for a pretty interesting accessory.  I placed mine across from the operating milk car platform so that both the milk car and the log dump car can be operated by the same UCS.

Pete

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Dan Padova posted:

I've been designing a layout to accommodate as many post war accessories as possible.  I came up with this layout.  It's 5'-6" x10'-6".

To answer your question about the 97 Coal Elevator, you need approximately 14 3/4" between tracks.  

That's pretty good Dan, but it does sort of miss the originaltwo train request.

The bottom line is he needs a TARDIS for a layout to get it all in. The list either needs to be shorter or the dimensions bigger.

Kind of reminds me of the old Steven Wright joke <best deadpan delivery> "You can't have everything... Where would you put it?"

It is possible to run two trains on my design.  The outer loop can run one train continuously.  It would be isolated from all of the track inside.  So switching operation could then be performed on the inner tracks while a train runs on the outer loop.  To make that even more of a possibility, I would move the switch track on the far left to the inner curve just to it's lower right.  That would allow the storage track to be accessed without having to enter the main line.  

The 456 can be used two ways. The coal car can be pushed up the ramp, stopped over the unload magnet, and be unloaded immediately. The other way is to push a coal car up the ramp, couple it to the ramp, uncouple the car from the idlers, and the loco pulls away with the idler cars.  Then the coal car can be unloaded at a later time. The coal ramp is designed for this second method. Since there is no third rail on the ramp, several idler cars have to be used to get the hopper up the ramp.  Then the hopper has to be pushed against the fixed coupler at the top of the ramp to get it to couple to the ramp.  After the car is unloaded, it is uncoupled from the ramp and rolls back down the ramp by its self, sometimes at a good clip.  This operation is likely to derail the idler cars, or the empty hopper rolling back down the ramp, unless the track is straight from at least the switch engine to the top of the ramp.  

The 397, 456, and 497, used together can be a lot of fun.  Note that the 497 has to be filled using a side dump car and the coal ramp only can be filled with a bottom dump hopper car. The 497 only works with the 3469 side dump, not the earlier 3459, due to the spacing of the accessory shoe contact rails in the 497. 

This operation will spill coal all over your layout. You may want to design the layout to contain the spilled coal to the table.  A small deadcated vacuum cleaner may be needed to recover all the misplaced coal from time to time. 

RE: The Modern Era versions of the operating Hopper have different uncouplers ("thumbtack" style) on their trucks, and will not be able to be in position to uncouple from the idler cars when using the Postwar version of the #456 Ramp. The modern Ramp will work with both postwar and modern cars.

And Yep, they're messy but fun.

The postwar N&W coal car is the only car that fits the 456 ramp. One can back the car onto the ramp uncouple from the train and dump the load when ready. The train can be backed up and coupled again to the car. The car can then be released from the ramp. This is why there are 3 buttons on the switch.

The prototypical way of using the ramp really takes up a lot of real-estate. Engine backs up a string of cars releases the end car. Then pulls forward past a turnout that leads to a siding. The car dumps the coal load and then is released from the ramp. Gravity rolls the car down the ramp through the turnout into the siding. The engine then backs the next car up the ramp and repeats the process. Another turnout allows the engine to run around and pick up the cars. Then they can be reloaded via the other coal loader.

I'm interested in your post since I recently built a 4' by 8' layout and have many of the same PW accessories. 

I'm very curious as to what you are going to use to power all of your accessories?  I have a KW and am only going to run one train, but that doesn't seem nearly enough.

David Johnston posted:

The 456 can be used two ways. The coal car can be pushed up the ramp, stopped over the unload magnet, and be unloaded immediately. The other way is to push a coal car up the ramp, couple it to the ramp, uncouple the car from the idlers, and the loco pulls away with the idler cars.  Then the coal car can be unloaded at a later time. The coal ramp is designed for this second method. Since there is no third rail on the ramp, several idler cars have to be used to get the hopper up the ramp.  Then the hopper has to be pushed against the fixed coupler at the top of the ramp to get it to couple to the ramp.  After the car is unloaded, it is uncoupled from the ramp and rolls back down the ramp by its self, sometimes at a good clip.  This operation is likely to derail the idler cars, or the empty hopper rolling back down the ramp, unless the track is straight from at least the switch engine to the top of the ramp.  

The 397, 456, and 497, used together can be a lot of fun.  Note that the 497 has to be filled using a side dump car and the coal ramp only can be filled with a bottom dump hopper car. The 497 only works with the 3469 side dump, not the earlier 3459, due to the spacing of the accessory shoe contact rails in the 497. 

This operation will spill coal all over your layout. You may want to design the layout to contain the spilled coal to the table.  A small deadcated vacuum cleaner may be needed to recover all the misplaced coal from time to time. 

If you don't pull the idler cars away from the ramp entirely, but leave them part way up the ramp, the released hopper won't gain enough momentum to derail itself or the oder cars.  Learned this through experience.  

johnstrains ,  you mentioned that you have the Lionel Dealer Layouts on DVD.  Where can I find a list of these layouts and the size of the layouts?  Then I could request more details about a specific layout.

Thanks

DS Texas posted:

johnstrains ,  you mentioned that you have the Lionel Dealer Layouts on DVD.  Where can I find a list of these layouts and the size of the layouts?  Then I could request more details about a specific layout.

Thanks

Hmm. That’s a good question. Classic Toy Trains has put out a couple of publications (a book and special magazine issue) on Lionel Dealer Displays that may be available. Or maybe a Google search will yield a list.

What I can tell you is that the Display Layouts were mostly 4x8, 5x9, and 8x8. Many featured multi-level layouts and you could run from one to three  trains depending on the layout specs. Most were regular O gauge tin track while others were Super O. All had loads of accessories and trackside signals.

Again, if you have a specific layout you’re interested in I can send the plans.

Below is a previous thread that is a collection of postwar dealer display layouts.  There are a number of real images of DD layouts and track plans.  I enjoyed reading through this thread quite a bit.  Just thought I would share if you guys weren't aware.  Enjoy!

JD

https://ogrforum.com/t...stwar-layouts?page=1