New UP 844 by Lionel

You bring up a good point about price point, Matt.  I personally feel that Lionel has been out in Left Field the past three years or so on this topic.  You make an excellent point when you say that their price point is very close to Third Rail these days.

I don't believe that MTHs recent run of FEFs has been mentioned in this thread yet.  Anyone else find the large price discrepancy between Big Orange and MTH somewhat.....shocking...and hard to explain/justify? 

IMHO, Lionel priced the FEF fairly in 2008, MTH did as well in 2015 (although I like the Lionel 844 better).....but 1400-1450 bananas for what is essentially a re-issue is excessive in my book.  It's also encroaching on the price of the Vision Line Challengers of the not to distant past, to put things in perspective.  (My perspective, any way.)

BERKSHIRE PRESIDENT,

Not to mention, the MTH model of UP 844 more closely resembles the 1990s thru 2010 "excursion era" UP FEF-3, while Lionel apparently payed no attempt to model that era.

Its hard to justify paying that much and after much advertising and promising they get it that wrong and now we haven't heard a peep from Lionel about the mistake.  Id rather spend the additional few hundred bucks and get a model from Scott that is the same build to order business model but the loco is correct and not a just a renumber of another engine. It's doesn't help their credibility and I am sure there a more than a few people who will remember this when the next BTO models come out and will spend their money elsewhere

Matt Makens posted:

Its hard to justify paying that much and after much advertising and promising they get it that wrong and now we haven't heard a peep from Lionel about the mistake.  Id rather spend the additional few hundred bucks and get a model from Scott that is the same build to order business model but the loco is correct and not a just a renumber of another engine. It's doesn't help their credibility and I am sure there a more than a few people who will remember this when the next BTO models come out and will spend their money elsewhere

I agree. I also have a Sunset/3rd Rail UP FEF-3, road number 841 (another one of the locomotives up-graded to the Worthington S Type Feedwater System). The 3rd Rail model really looks great parked side-by-side with the previous Lionel #844. It might just be worth contacting Scott Mann, at Sunset/3rd Rail and see if he would be willing to offer the UP FEF-2 AND FEF-3 models with the "as built" Sellers Exhaust Steam Feedwater System, thus LOTS of different road numbers could be available.  The price might also be equivalent, or below, a Legacy/Vision Line Lionel model too.

Might be worth perusing. 

MartyE posted:

I currently have the Greyhound version and will look for the black on the secondary market.  

 

https://ogrforum.com/t...d-accessories?page=1

Hello all,

 Please don't get me wrong, the older version is a beautiful ( in fact i own the black and grey older version). I'm saying when you have both of them running right next to each other, the new version sound is much better. As soon as i have a chance i will post a video of each one so you can hear the difference.

Thanks, Alex

Alex M posted:

Hello all,

 Please don't get me wrong, the older version is a beautiful ( in fact i own the black and grey older version). I'm saying when you have both of them running right next to each other, the new version sound is much better. As soon as i have a chance i will post a video of each one so you can hear the difference.

Thanks, Alex

In my opinion, "better" is a highly subjective term, which may NOT mean "more accurate". Having spent some 17 years as a contract Fireman on the previous UP Steam Crew, I can fully appreciate the "close to prototypical" whistle sounds of UP 844 or UP 3985. I van only state my OPINION, but I think the whistle & exhaust sounds of the PREVIOUS Legacy model of #844 were better. Maybe not "sonically enhanced" as with the newest version, but better, in my opinion. 

Hello all 

I just went down to the layout, and took two quick videos. I made sure all settings were the same on each engine,   Especially the labor effects. You guys be the judge. 

Alex 

Thanks.

1) I prefer the exhaust sounds from the first video.

2) In the second video, the exhaust sound does not match the main rod & piston vs. the quartering of the driver rotation. That seems odd to me.

I agree with Hot Water. The second one sounds just like my Bigboy.

I do have a question does the new FEF have a cab light?

I also like the exhaust sounds in video one.                 Does anybody make accurate high speed exhaust  sounds ?

clem k posted:

I also like the exhaust sounds in video one.                 Does anybody make accurate high speed exhaust  sounds ?

I have always enjoyed MTH exhaust sounds, especially at speeds over scale 65 MPH.

MDuppy posted:

I agree with Hot Water. The second one sounds just like my Bigboy.

I do have a question does the new FEF have a cab light?

 

Yes it does have a very dim Cab light. We had to turn off the shop lights to really see it. 

I like the sounds on video 2 . Deeper exhaust and more creaking . Right or wrong I don't know. Just like it more.

Well, Alex....that was definitely cool of you to post that.  Many thanks.

On a different note, that may be more subjective, can anyone comment on whether there is a noticeable difference running the FEFs on 0-84 vs 0-72?  While my 844 navigates my 0-72 just fine, I think it looks kind of odd b/c the loco is so big.

I'm expanding the layout sometime (soon, I hope) and I can go as big as 0-84 and 0-88 on my outer mainline.  I'm wondering how much better the 844 will take these...and if a VL Challenger can look OK on the same.

I have two of the new run FEFs (844 black and 835 greyhound) and while I'm glad I have them - a bit of wish fulfillment from not being able to get them the first time around, I wish Lionel would've done the following:

1) pack the engines, especially around the pilot trucks, with care (both my models have scratches on the cylinders), and judging from others' models, I'm not the only one with this little issue 

2) in reference to #1, whyd'ya ditch the chrome cylinder heads Lionel? - much, much better with chrome

3) this engine screams for a "smoking" Dynamo, but maybe that would make it Vision, idk

4) like some of you, and this doesn't affect my models, but advertising something as significant as a difference in feed water heaters and not following through creates doubt in the consumer. And, like others have mentioned, if you're approaching 3rd Rail price points, well, you get the idea.

Alex - thanks for the videos, which are a great comparison.

There's no shortage of differences between the original and new FEF3s in terms of operating features. I have the 844 Greyhound from the first issue and the new 8444 and the three differences that matter to me are:

1.  The sound set: I agree the new version main sound is different and better; to my ear it sounds crisper and deeper with the addition of some extra sounds. However the crew talk is no longer engine-specific. I know that won't matter to a lot of people but I'm a little puzzled by it in the light of there being one extra segment of dialog as described in 2.

2.  Lighting: On the original version the Mars hazard light flashes when the engine is stationary, including when it is simply "parked" on a powered track. In the new version it only functions when the emergency stop sequence is engaged and there is new tower/crew dialog to go with that. The new version of this feature is more prototypical in that the hazard light on the real engine was seldom used, or so I understand from some research. There's a thread on this forum a couple of years back that discusses this. 

3.  Smoke: The new version has a two chamber smoke unit to run the main stacks and the whistle steam; the original has a single "analog" smoke unit with a 6 or 8 Ohm resistor (I forget which it is) that Lionel no longer uses or stocks as a replacement part. The original unit is one of the most prolific smokers Lionel has ever made and puts out plumes of smoke and indeed the occasional smoke ring. The new unit makes a fair amount of smoke but nothing truly exceptional by either Legacy or MTH standards. It does however have smoke lofting out of the stack at idle, which the original unit did not.

Finally, with the new Legacy control boards and using command control the sound, smoke and light functions are all off (apart from the marker lights) when power is applied to the track and until the engine is addressed. In the original there is power to the lights and smoke unit whenever the track is powered even if the engine has not been addressed. It also has the distinct background "buzz" of the earlier Legacy boards whereas the new version does not.

I actually like running the two engines at the same time.

Alex,

   It was great seeing you and Dina on Saturday. Thanks for the quick repair job on my Legacy PRR RS11 diesel. I plan on taking it to the club on Thursday. Plan on running it with my new Legacy GP9 as well as another Legacy RS11, If I have enough room in the siding I will add my non powered RS11 to the consist as well.

   Also thanks for showing me your new 8444 FEF UP engine as well as your older Legacy 844. When comparing the two the older version was a terrific engine but the new one is awesome. The sounds are improved, emergency lighting works like it should and all the detail is exactly the same as the older engine. If some of the critics in this post could see and hear the engines in person I am sure they would change their opinions.  Oh smoking whistle too can't forget that.

Thanks again

JohnB

Tru-Color black, and Scalecoat II Aluminum adds just a bit of detail to those shiny metal axle ends  Yup, I took a paint brush to my brand new model, but wait til I rip off the coil coupler for a Kadee on the tender  details, details, details.. I can't help myself.

Before:

After:

Doug,

Looks awesome and adds great visual appeal.

Well sorry Doug, but for personal reasons, I really dislike that "current look" of 844, what with all that extra "bling". In proper UP steam fashion, she should ONLY have the bright aluminum journal covers, and the center of the engine truck wheels, i.e. NO driver tires, walkway edges, and wheel rims.

I prefer the the more "original" look.

Hey, who let you in here?

Matt Makens posted:

Hey, who let you in here?

Sorry if I brought reality to your little group.

Well, I saw my first new 884 in action yesterday  compliments the Pittsburgh Independent Hirailers at the Monroeville Greenberg show.  Regardless of how it compares to earlier models or the original on the UP, It is an impressive engine, and I liked watching it.  No, I'm not interested in getting one.  I would have to put in just one big circle in my small room to run one.   

Hot Water posted:

Well sorry Doug, but for personal reasons, I really dislike that "current look" of 844, what with all that extra "bling". In proper UP steam fashion, she should ONLY have the bright aluminum journal covers, and the center of the engine truck wheels, i.e. NO driver tires, walkway edges, and wheel rims.

I prefer the the more "original" look.

I totally agree, thats why my original 844 is all "blacked out" and I don't like the current looks of the real 844 now that it's been all blinged out. Looks like a ride at an amusement park. 

Since this 8444 is already blinged out, I had to do the wheel centers.

I like the bling of my 2008 FEF-3. The engineer even put some 18" sub's in it to rock out.

Not you Jack, I meant the riff raff with the pimped out 844

Pumped? Or pimped?

My girlfriend was yelling at me for not listening to her so I didn't proof read it

Matt Makens posted:

My girlfriend was yelling at me for not listening to her so I didn't proof read it

Certainly, she should be accustom to that by now, Matt.

LOS...looks good.  I need to black out mine, driver tires and axles.  

Doug, glad you are back on this forum!

What are we talking about? 

I like the axles black, I'm gonna do that to mine but the pilot hubs look aweful, you should change em back out of good taste. 

Well, thank you to Marty and Alex and everyone else for all the reviews, pictures and videos of the Lionel UP FEF-3.  Because of all of these incessant wonderful comments about this locomotive, I was compelled into buying an 844 that I previously did not plan to buy or even put on my wish list.

Once again I am victimized by this forum.  This just has to stop!

Matt Makens posted:

 but the pilot hubs look aweful, you should change em back out of good taste. 

Buts thats how they really look

Doug, some things are just not OK, how may ugly women did you put on your layout?

One of the differences between Lionel and MTH is that MTH  uses its Challenger and Big Boy tenders for its FEF-3.  Although Challenger and Big Boy tenders are substantially similar to the FEF-3 tenders, they are not identical.  The FEF-3 tender has foot supports running along the fuel section on the outside of the tender while the Big Boy and a challenger tenders do not have such supports.  Lionel recognizes this difference in its model.  MTH also uses the same tender for its Premier Pennsylvania J1a and Q2 models when the two locomotives should have slightly different tenders (the Lionel model of the J1a has an accurate tender while the MTH J1a uses the Q2 tender - not accurate).

Doug !! Welcome back buddy!!!!

Alex 

Laidoffsick posted:

Tru-Color black, and Scalecoat II Aluminum adds just a bit of detail to those shiny metal axle ends  Yup, I took a paint brush to my brand new model, but wait til I rip off the coil coupler for a Kadee on the tender  details, details, details.. I can't help myself.

Before:

After:

Nice work!  I've been thinking about doing the same thing with mine,  but two questions:

1. When shining up the rods, do I have to take the rods off or take the engine apart?
2. What paint did you use to get the drive rods that color?

When did 844 ever have pinstriping on the smoke lifters?