Brian Sheffield posted:Here is video of real thing. Sounds appear to be in sync to me. What do you think?
As mentioned previously they will be in sync and then drift to out of sync at various times. The postings here seem to point towards Lionel's latest model never going out of sync.
BobbyD posted:Brian Sheffield posted:Here is video of real thing. Sounds appear to be in sync to me. What do you think?
As mentioned previously they will be in sync and then drift to out of sync at various times. The postings here seem to point towards Lionel's latest model never going out of sync.
Correct!
. Just my opinion.MELGAR
No guest has ever noticed or asked about the second set of drivers going in and out of sync other than the occasional rivet counter who knew it in advance and was looking to stir the pot.
No guest has likely dished out 1600-1700 bucks for one of your locomotives.
Or saved up for one. Or intended it to be the last major piece in his/her collection.
Berkshire President posted:. Just my opinion.MELGAR
No guest has ever noticed or asked about the second set of drivers going in and out of sync other than the occasional rivet counter who knew it in advance and was looking to stir the pot.
No guest has likely dished out 1600-1700 bucks for one of your locomotives.
Or saved up for one. Or intended it to be the last major piece in his/her collection.
Well, I wouldn't call them "guests" but, as part of the former Independent Hi-Railers, MidWest Division, we generally received lots of comments/questions about the sounds of the various articulated steam locomotive models, many of us ran. So, yes,,,,,,,,they DID ask about the two separate driver sets under one boiler, and "funny" sounds as it ran.
b/c of their size, the way they go around curves, and their two sets of drive wheels, articulated steam engines attract LOTS of attention..........
Berkshire President posted:. Just my opinion.MELGAR
No guest has ever noticed or asked about the second set of drivers going in and out of sync other than the occasional rivet counter who knew it in advance and was looking to stir the pot.
No guest has likely dished out 1600-1700 bucks for one of your locomotives.
Or saved up for one. Or intended it to be the last major piece in his/her collection.
I have no UP steam, those that brought them over never had anyone ask about the chuff rate changing versus the drivers themselves not actually going in and out of sync. We did have an MTH Protosound AC-6 Cab Forward at one time and those that heard it run where always inquiring about the interesting changing of the chuff count. Cannot imagine Lionel would design these new Legacy articulateds with non varying constant 4 chuffs per revolution.
BobbyD posted:Cannot imagine Lionel would design these new Legacy articulateds with non varying constant 4 chuffs per revolution.
Welcome to the club, that's what amazes me as well!
Well, took me a bit to catch up on this. It is disappointing to not hear the articulation is in there as it should be as states by those that know it should be. It should be out of sync as they(those that have said) should be that way. I don't see any sensible reason that they would do this in any case as it is senseless. If someone were to argue to have it like this to distinguish from the first batch of challengers, I'd say they're nuts. Mine hasn't made it to my LTS, and it really won't matter too much to me how it sounds, just wish it was correct. Hopefully none blow up being in sync.
On a secondary note did the kinematic drawbar make it into these models?
Jeremy I have posted that very question twice and none of the owners of this current run have responded. I hope an owner chimes in with a response.
T4TT posted:Jeremy I have posted that very question twice and none of the owners of this current run have responded. I hope an owner chimes in with a response.
I have not opened mine. I am waiting on a response with a resolution makes everything easier what ever my options are. Its not listed as a feature on this locomotive and is on the new bigboy in the new catalog so I am betting it did not.
Anyone hear an answer from Lionel or Hobby Store regarding articulated sound?
Alabama Joe posted:Anyone hear an answer from Lionel or Hobby Store regarding articulated sound?
Yes Joe I received an email from Lionel earlier they are aware of the issue and were having a meeting this afternoon to talk about handling it. we are awaiting the official response.
Shawn_Chronister posted:T4TT posted:Jeremy I have posted that very question twice and none of the owners of this current run have responded. I hope an owner chimes in with a response.
I have not opened mine. I am waiting on a response with a resolution makes everything easier what ever my options are. Its not listed as a feature on this locomotive and is on the new bigboy in the new catalog so I am betting it did not.
Ryan did state that I would have a kinematic drawbar. I did recall seeing it on my 3985. But will double check when I get home
There is a Ryan and Dave show this afternoon. Perhaps info will be disclosed in that.
Shawn_Chronister posted:Alabama Joe posted:Anyone hear an answer from Lionel or Hobby Store regarding articulated sound?
Yes Joe I received an email from Lionel earlier they are aware of the issue and were having a meeting this afternoon to talk about handling it. we are awaiting the official response.
Thank you. I appreciate your response.
I'm just repeating what I read in the catalog for the challenger IE no mention of chuff sounds for each set of drivers.
what it does say is a "dyna chuff syncronized with 32 levels of intensity as the locomotive gains speed" nary a word of in or out of sync sounds or any mention of 4 chuffs per drive wheel revolution so to me is self explanitory but only what I read in the catalog of 2018 features included.
my take as delivered with no out of sync chuffing sounds was never implied just saying, please all go read the catalog online at lionels website. now will see what the lionel facebook report has to say later today I am curious if i am right or wrong on this as to what I read in the catalog.
StPaul posted:I'm just repeating what I read in the catalog for the challenger IE no mention of chuff sounds for each set of drivers.
what it does say is a "dyna chuff syncronized with 32 levels of intensity as the locomotive gains speed" nary a word of in or out of sync sounds or any mention of 4 chuffs per drive wheel revolution so to me is self explanitory but only what I read in the catalog of 2018 features included.
my take as delivered with no out of sync chuffing sounds was never implied just saying, please all go read the catalog online at lionels website. now will see what the lionel facebook report has to say later today I am curious if i am right or wrong on this as to what I read in the catalog.
All well and good but,,,,,,,,,,,the Lionel catalog has been worn before. Take for example all the hype about the UP FEF-3 models having SPECIFIC road number specific details, such as the locomotive with the Sellers Exhaust Steam Injector system. When delivered, all Lionel did was place different road numbers on the "844 model", and the "road number specific details" never materialized!
T4TT posted:Jeremy I have posted that very question twice and none of the owners of this current run have responded. I hope an owner chimes in with a response.
I'm just trying to make a list off all the things that should be on the version I ordered vs what I Received! For instance on the greyhound model it was advertised with dark running gear and I see it ended up being standard silver/metal finish. Then the obvious sound debacle! I really get frustrated when they advertise it a certain way and deliver something else. I don't even mind if the need to make a change but let the customers know its being done so they can make a decision. Its not like the turn time on these is quick!!! You wait till the Hudson's are delivered later this year. With all the different variations its going to be a real CF. Instead of Lionel using their art shots for catalogs. I wish they would use color way schematic diagrams like some of the other manufactures. Of course then it'd just make their deviations more obvious. Not trying to be negative but it sounds like WE! as hobbyist are really going to have to start pushing back on these inadequacies to get results. I love Lionel. I want to buy everything they make but quit giving me a reason not too! I'm eager to see how they handle this!
jeremy ferrell posted:T4TT posted:Jeremy I have posted that very question twice and none of the owners of this current run have responded. I hope an owner chimes in with a response.
I'm just trying to make a list off all the things that should be on the version I ordered vs what I Received! For instance on the greyhound model it was advertised with dark running gear and I see it ended up being standard silver/metal finish. Then the obvious sound debacle! I really get frustrated when they advertise it a certain way and deliver something else. I don't even mind if the need to make a change but let the customers know its being done so they can make a decision. Its not like the turn time on these is quick!!! You wait till the Hudson's are delivered later this year. With all the different variations its going to be a real CF. Instead of Lionel using their art shots for catalogs. I wish they would use color way schematic diagrams like some of the other manufactures. Of course then it'd just make their deviations more obvious. Not trying to be negative but it sounds like WE! as hobbyist are really going to have to start pushing back on these inadequacies to get results. I love Lionel. I want to buy everything they make but quit giving me a reason not too! I'm eager to see how they handle thi
The real 3977 has polished running gear. I was hoping they would ship it without the blackened rods. Ideally the black rods are non passenger/freight locomotives.
FYI, nothing was addressed regarding this issue during today's Ryan and Dave Show (which stayed 100% focused on the 2019 Volume 2 Catalog), so I am guessing they are intending to respond in a different way.
Remember guys and gals, right inside every catalog there is always a disclaimer as follows,
"Items depicted in this catalog are subject t o change in color, price, size, design and availability. Verify features on product package."
So what does all this mean? So unless a feature is listed on the box your not going to get it no matter what the catalog says.
So unless you believe the manufacturer is being truthful go ahead and use the BTO system. But after delivery don't complain or assume about what was promised in the catalog.
Dave
I guess no answer on lionels live facebook event on challenger issues?
Craignor posted:Is this what you all are looking for?
No.....everyone seems to want out of SYNC By the way, I just sat through that too long and drawn out Facebook presentation. No word from Lionel about in sync or out of sync sounds.
Surefire posted:jeremy ferrell posted:T4TT posted:Jeremy I have posted that very question twice and none of the owners of this current run have responded. I hope an owner chimes in with a response.
I'm just trying to make a list off all the things that should be on the version I ordered vs what I Received! For instance on the greyhound model it was advertised with dark running gear and I see it ended up being standard silver/metal finish. Then the obvious sound debacle! I really get frustrated when they advertise it a certain way and deliver something else. I don't even mind if the need to make a change but let the customers know its being done so they can make a decision. Its not like the turn time on these is quick!!! You wait till the Hudson's are delivered later this year. With all the different variations its going to be a real CF. Instead of Lionel using their art shots for catalogs. I wish they would use color way schematic diagrams like some of the other manufactures. Of course then it'd just make their deviations more obvious. Not trying to be negative but it sounds like WE! as hobbyist are really going to have to start pushing back on these inadequacies to get results. I love Lionel. I want to buy everything they make but quit giving me a reason not too! I'm eager to see how they handle thi
The real 3977 has polished running gear. I was hoping they would ship it without the blackened rods. Ideally the black rods are non passenger/freight locomotives.
I’ll be the first admit I did not do my research on this and with that being said I’m 100% ok with prototypical features taking precedence over ascetics. That issue is no more for me!
StPaul posted:I guess no answer on lionels live facebook event on challenger issues?
Nope. I didn’t expect them to go into detail about it but a simple we’re working on it would have sufficed!
jeremy ferrell posted:StPaul posted:I guess no answer on lionels live facebook event on challenger issues?
Nope. I didn’t expect them to go into detail about it but a simple we’re working on it would have sufficed!
Well, that presupposes that they are working on it. 
Maybe it's as intended and they're not going to address it. Hard to believe that would be true, but in the absence of even an acknowledgement that the issue exists, I'm not sure what to think.
I was going to look for one of these when they hit the dealer after I actually saw one, I'm sure glad I didn't pre-order!
Well, a comparison on the features for the 2010 Challenger vs. the 2018 Challenger. Quite a few differences other than the obvious updated tech. First two pictures are the 2010 Challenger, last one is the 2018 Challenger.
The big difference is that in the 2010(second picture) it lists the Articulated chuffs. Nothing at all stated in the 2018 version(unless I missed it somewhere).
gunrunnerjohn posted:If the physical drivers are not all in sync, maybe the missing articulated audio is still intentional.
Yes absolutley... that would tell us its a mistake. i was waiting for mine to show up to see if they all were symmetrical or not (like vision challengers in first run).
Mine are delayed till friday(hopefully) or saturday...
I am still not sweating this. The sounds can be updated... not a big deal... I think we will hear from circle L soon on this...
I cant wait for my engines to get here!
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Well, a comparison on the features for the 2010 Challenger vs. the 2018 Challenger. Quite a few differences other than the obvious updated tech. First two pictures are the 2010 Challenger, last one is the 2018 Challenger.
The big difference is that in the 2010(second picture) it lists the Articulated chuffs. Nothing at all stated in the 2018 version(unless I missed it somewhere).
Could the change in Sound sets have something to do with them moving to the newer style boards I’ve heard Dave mention. Maybe they didn’t have a sound file? Or maybe I’m just talking outta my butt! You would think it would have to be something like that! Couldn’t imagine anyone would want the driftless sound set vs drift chuff. Certainly not upgrade! Furthermore they would run into the same issue on the new 4014 offerings. Maybe that’s why it’s offered as a non vision model? Conspiracy much lol!
Omitting this intentionally is even worse than just missing it.
Either way, shame on Big Orange.
Now, let's see if they "man up".
How many catalogs mentioned the "fire box glow" on the scale Berks that was never there?
It's a two way street.........
jeremy ferrell posted:Could the change in Sound sets have something to do with them moving to the newer style boards I’ve heard Dave mention. Maybe they didn’t have a sound file? Or maybe I’m just talking outta my butt! You would think it would have to be something like that! Couldn’t imagine anyone would want the driftless sound set vs drift chuff. Certainly not upgrade! Furthermore they would run into the same issue on the new 4014 offerings. Maybe that’s why it’s offered as a non vision model? Conspiracy much lol!
Since a ton of other Legacy steam is using the same Legacy Lite sound board and have successfully implemented articulated sounds, it's not because they couldn't do it. I have a few plain Legacy steamers from recent years that have articulated sound sets.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Super O Bob posted:OOPS! Looks like those drivers slipped out of sync!
Sorry... this is ACTUALLY a FIRST RUN VL challenger! You can tell by the boiler and the oversize tender lettering!
But AGAIN, i said this first run had out of sync drivers and out of sync sounds.
BUZZ, WRONG, thanks for playing!
Here's the video I took that clip from, can you explain why Ryan is confused as to what version of locomotive he's demonstrating? The title sure looks like it says the 2018 version!
@jeremy ferrell, at the 11 minute mark, Ryan does mention the kinematic drawbar being in these models. Whether it made it into it is till a mystery I guess.
gunrunnerjohn posted:jeremy ferrell posted:Could the change in Sound sets have something to do with them moving to the newer style boards I’ve heard Dave mention. Maybe they didn’t have a sound file? Or maybe I’m just talking outta my butt! You would think it would have to be something like that! Couldn’t imagine anyone would want the driftless sound set vs drift chuff. Certainly not upgrade! Furthermore they would run into the same issue on the new 4014 offerings. Maybe that’s why it’s offered as a non vision model? Conspiracy much lol!
Since a ton of other Legacy steam is using the same Legacy Lite sound board and have successfully implemented articulated sounds, it's not because they couldn't do it. I have a few plain Legacy steamers from recent years that have articulated sound sets.
Just thinking out loud. I’m done speculating. We’ll wait for a response
Berkshire President posted:How many catalogs mentioned the "fire box glow" on the scale Berks that was never there?
It's a two way street.........
Here is a picture of the firebox glow that you say was never in scale berks. I have 7 of them. They ALL have it.
Which scale berk do you have that does not have this? I have berks from most runs and they all have it...
Fake News!
Craignor posted:Fake News!
Yup. I have had scale berks since about 2002... they all had this to my knowledge... im not aware of it ever being dropped.
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
