Newbie Legacy LCS questions

Signed on to watch.

Yup you can do everything and anything you want to do. Ross switches will come with either DZ1000 or DZ2500 switch machines. I recommend doing some searching on the forum to find out what machine you want to use. And going from there that will decide what LCS components you will need.

while this may be kinda lacking in the information department here’s the last video I did on our clubs new layout. We are further along and probably need to do another video but I typically fall behind in the summer.

@Hp289 posted:

Newbie here planning and preparing to build a 15x17 around the room layout.  It's a two looper with crossovers.  My thoughts are to build it all Gargraves/Ross or Ross/Ross track/switches.   I "think" I would like to run Legacy system with LCS and run it all from an iPad.   This is based on reading and watching videos.   I plan to run a few Visionline engines and rolling stock primarily.   I also plan to run some postwar Lionel engines I already own.  I am aware that the older engines don't have any of the features of the new, but I'm under the understanding I can still run them conventional, yes?  Also, will the Ross switches work with LCS?   Please understand, I have no real experience and could use the guidance.  I'm still learning how this all works.  I really feel like I would like to stay all Lionel.

I did a bunch of Videos on the LCS system when I built my layout.  Start with Episode 5 (there are 4 parts).  That may give you a good idea of how it works.

(1) My O Gauge Layout - Episode 5 - Part 1 - YouTube

@Hp289 posted:

Newbie here planning and preparing to build a 15x17 around the room layout.  It's a two looper with crossovers.  My thoughts are to build it all Gargraves/Ross or Ross/Ross track/switches.   I "think" I would like to run Legacy system with LCS and run it all from an iPad.   This is based on reading and watching videos.   I plan to run a few Visionline engines and rolling stock primarily.   I also plan to run some postwar Lionel engines I already own.  I am aware that the older engines don't have any of the features of the new, but I'm under the understanding I can still run them conventional, yes?  Also, will the Ross switches work with LCS?   Please understand, I have no real experience and could use the guidance.  I'm still learning how this all works.  I really feel like I would like to stay all Lionel.

Just as an experienced user, the iPad LCS program is better used as a layout control device.  Run the trains from the Legacy remote or the iCab app.  LCS does have engine control but it is very limited and doesn't support any real Legacy functions on the engines.

That being said, the LCS app does a pretty good job controlling all aspects of my layout such as switches, blocks, and accessories.

I recently built my 24 x 12 layout with Ross switches and Gargraves and Ross track, and I'm running the LCS, Legacy, DCS, and conventional.

I have to agree with Marty, I run my locomotives using the associated remote, and switches and accessories can be controlled using the iPad.  The iPad is pretty kludgy for running locomotives, at least that's my experience.  Also, you can't run DCS stuff with the LCS system at all anyway.

LCS will run Ross/Gargraves switches if you use ASC2s for the DZ1000 Switch Machines (each ASC2 will control 4 switches) or CSM2s and Breakout Boards for the DZ2500 Command-Controlled Switch Machines. See the Lionel LCS website for details. I use Legacy on my layout, which I love. Also, you mentioned that you plan to run Postwar conventional trains. If you want to use the Legacy system to run conventional, I'd recommend a ZW-C, ZW-L, or Legacy Powermasters/180W Powerhouses for track power.

Yes, my Ross switches with the DZ-2500 and the CSM2 LCS boxes work perfectly with LCS and the iPad.

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

…I'd recommend a ZW-C, ZW-L, or Legacy Powermasters/180W Powerhouses for track power.

I would stay away from the ZW-C if using Legacy there are problems that can pop up. Then again if you already have one or find one for a price you can’t beat hard to say no.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yes, my Ross switches with the DZ-2500 and the CSM2 LCS boxes work perfectly with LCS and the iPad.

Wait the CSM2 boxes now work with absolutely no problems now 🤨. Thought there was the occasional issue on power up that locked up the DZ2500’s?

@zhubl posted:

Wait the CSM2 boxes now work with absolutely no problems now 🤨. Thought there was the occasional issue on power up that locked up the DZ2500’s?

The serial data out of the CSM2 boxes is the issue, and I just use the DZ-2001A data driver for the serial data.  The real reason for the CSM2 boxes is the switch position feedback and optionally the block control.  That all works fine.

I know how to fix the serial data issue, I just have to delay powering the DZ-2500 switch machines for a second or two and all is well.  Since the DZ-2001A is working, I haven't gotten around to doing that little mod yet.

John, I know you are not a fan of the GW180 transformers, but I was contemplating getting 2 of them with their associated 180 PH and running one on each line.   This way I can run postwar conventional using the lever, or , turn the power up to 18v and get a legacy 990? to run the vision line engines I plan to buy.   Yes?  With the Z4000 unavailable now and the ZW-L so high priced, I thought this was a reasonable solution.  Thoughts?    

I see no issues with the GW180. Although I haven’t see a scope image of the output of the GW180. If it’s anything like the older CW-80 then not the best. I do like my ZW-L, if you like using the remote a legacy power master with a 180 brick is also a good option to run conventional with a Cab remote.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I know how to fix the serial data issue, I just have to delay powering the DZ-2500 switch machines for a second or two and all is well.  Since the DZ-2001A is working, I haven't gotten around to doing that little mod yet.

John kinda random but I thought about this issue one day (I think that was my issue when originally testing the DZ2500’s with the CSM2). I see a lot of ICM controls in HVAC/R and thought of their delay on make timer. I have one haven’t tried it yet it’s designed for 24VAC so I don’t know if 12VAC will cut it. But it will also do 120VAC so you could delay the power up of a separate transformer. Just a thought for a simple solution.

@zhubl posted:

John kinda random but I thought about this issue one day (I think that was my issue when originally testing the DZ2500’s with the CSM2). I see a lot of ICM controls in HVAC/R and thought of their delay on make timer. I have one haven’t tried it yet it’s designed for 24VAC so I don’t know if 12VAC will cut it. But it will also do 120VAC so you could delay the power up of a separate transformer. Just a thought for a simple solution.

Actually, I have a much simpler solution.  I'm just going to run the power for the DZ-2500 switches through my relay panel in an unused channel.  An RC delay on the input will delay the application of power to the DZ-2500 switch feed for the required amount of time.  Total expenditure, a resistor, cap, and diode.  I have unused channels on the relay board now.

Why would Lionel make the GW180 if the "wave?" wasn't good for their engines?  

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

LCS will run Ross/Gargraves switches if you use ASC2s for the DZ1000 Switch Machines (each ASC2 will control 4 switches) or CSM2s and Breakout Boards for the DZ2500 Command-Controlled Switch Machines. See the Lionel LCS website for details. I use Legacy on my layout, which I love. Also, you mentioned that you plan to run Postwar conventional trains. If you want to use the Legacy system to run conventional, I'd recommend a ZW-C, ZW-L, or Legacy Powermasters/180W Powerhouses for track power.

Dylan, I don't know where to find a ZW-L or even a Z4000 these days, it seems no-one has them in stock, let alone at a decent price!  I want to be able to run postwar conventionally and legacy.  I'm guessing with the LCS system from an iPad, as I actually don't care for the remote and switching via engine numbers and codes.   The lion app seems to be better?  I'm a little lost here on the best way to control all this.

@Hp289 posted:

Why would Lionel make the GW180 if the "wave?" wasn't good for their engines?

Why did Lionel make the CW-80 when the old version certainly had issues with the waveform?

Great.  I'm still somewhat mixed up on powering and controlling what I'm building.  

@Hp289 posted:

Great.  I'm still somewhat mixed up on powering and controlling what I'm building.  

It'll all come in focus.   There's a lot to absorb when you start up, but it starts to make sense after a while.

@Hp289 posted:

Why would Lionel make the GW180 if the "wave?" wasn't good for their engines?  

HP,

"Good" or "Not Good" is an interesting set of terms here.  By and large transformers that put out modified-waveform AC won't hurt anything.   You just don't get the smooth, accurate control of speed that you would expect.  In extreme cases it can cause the electronic logic in the locomotive to get confused so that it won't cycle properly, or the horn/bell won't work.

You likely also get some serious growling out of AC motors as well.

But no physical damage in any case.  (Note: Some folks may dispute this but I have never seen any transformer-induced damage to locomotives in many, many years of using these kinds of transformers.)

Mike

OK, I pulled the trigger on a new ZW-L from Mario's trains.   It will be here in a few days.   This is my starting point.   I'm going to wire it for conventional, with regular switch controllers or a control panel.   Give it a little time, maybe a year, then decide if I want to push through to Legacy and LCS.    Thanks Gents.