Newer die cast blowing apart.

What in the world causes this?

Harry #3,

I'd contact the folks at MTH for sure. It's a problem created when made. Find the "made" date. How and when was it shipped? I wouldn't feel guilty, it's not your fault..Good Luck!

This is one of the scarier consequences of Far East manufacturing - no quality control on what gets dumped into the vat and used for die-casting. I recently had a Lionel coupler knuckle crumble in my hands just trying to pull a knuckle rivet shank up through the hole it rides in; pieces literally just fell off the knuckle. I've also seen some plastics (this was an MTH diesel) where the screw mount posts are crumbling with age after ten years.

We do not know how long any of these imported expensive toys will last; but I'm willing to bet Lionel Postwar will likely outlast a great many of the imported locomotive shells and bodies. I wish this was not true, but  my experience tells me otherwise. So far my Korean made items are holding up better than my Chinese made items and that's likely due to cost-cuts in the Chinese cut-throat manufacturing arena.

Pappy

The worst thing was having to call the customer and tell them there's a problem with there baby.

i plan on checking with MTH. It's a great looking loco. 

That was a common problem on that model from around 97 or 98...my friends tender blew up the same way around 2007 that and the western and atlantic  coach couplers from the same time.

Just thinking out loud here, it's probably my bad eyes and paint overspray, but the second picture down (hah3's) almost looks like it's been heated with a torch or something? The flaking looks like it's where the bend/bow is the worst? 

I see that's happened to the next one also, that is just poor quality then I suppose.

This happened to me in 2009. I called or emailed MTH about the problem and they knew about the problem and sent me an RA# and I sent the damaged shell back in and they sent me a replacement.

I will have to check my tender with the new shell and see how its doing.

Good Luck

franktrain

Hi Bob

Did you find a tender shell to replace that one.

That one looks real bad.

Yep, the diecast metal itself is swelling and disintegrating due to a chemical reaction with impurities.  Those RailKing torpedo locos are known for that.  Some MTH diesels have had diecast frame warping in addition to screw holes in the plastic shell coming apart.

It's not just MTH.  Some K-Line diecast trucks and couplers have crumbled, some diecast frames on Weaver troop cars are warping badly, etc.  The quality of Chinese manufacturing is well, let's just say suspect.

Same happened to mine two Christmases ago. Called MTH and they had a replacement on hand. 

That was a long time ago....MTH made good on it at the time. They also would give you the coupler assembly's for the W&ARR coaches. The parts guy at the MTH booth at York would not take any money for them.

Same for my situation. MTH would not take money for the shell, only one way shipping to them. 

I had the same problem with some Atlas dummy couplers between the A and B units of some FM Erie B units.  Atlas graciously replaced the couplers but there was no doubt that the castings "exploded" causing the failure.  Back in the 1930's metallurgy was not what it is today and any impurity could cause the problem.  Most of the time it was a trace of lead in the pot, but I've heard that even the copper from a piece of wire could raise havoc with the mix.

Our Chinese friends making this stuff should handle learn to casting pots more carefully

Paul Fischer

MTH has been willing to replace the shells of these specific locos, contact them for a return authorization, explaining what you found, and the SKU # of the loco. They will probably give you an RA #, you can send the defective shell to them, and they will return ship a new shell to you, unless they ran out by now. I have gotten three shells over the years, with no hassle or problem. LMK if I can help. 

I had two Atlas electronic couplers on a switcher fall apart.  The truck frame on a K-Line diesel also failed in this manner.  It is just diecast rot.  I haven't had time to pursue getting replacement parts.

Joe 

Hello guys and gals............

I cannot imaged a 2000 dollars plus lionel big boy or Y6B swelling up like that.

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678,2003,200

Tiffany

Have there been problems with the Korean production engines from the 90's?

The new heavyweight trucks on the Premier passenger cars are swelling and breaking also. They changed the side frame from a one piece casting to a 9 piece casting, of very thin material, and it also has zinc pest, zinc rot, or whatever people call it.

Sometimes you can buy replacement trucks from MTH for a reduced price and sometimes not. As far as I know, MTH has not acknowledged this problem with the new trucks, but they did acknowledge the problem with the torpedo tender shell.

With some, yes. For example, we purchased Lionel's late 80s reissue of the Hiawatha. The body of the locomotive started showing signs of deterioration a few years ago. I've heard similar reports from others who own the same set.

Bob   

Harry, you can't use those boxes for booster seats and expect nothing to bend!

That's pretty ugly, I hope to never see that when I open a box!

I have some Williams PRR 72' scale Madison cars with 6 wheel die cast trucks.  With just light to moderate handling the trucks crumble and disintegrate like crackers.  I believe these cars were made in the late 80's or early 90's as they have the hi gloss paint.  I'm using the rest of the cars for parts.

Nick 

The truck on a common K-Line loco crumbled for me too.

Had the Williams "Madison" cars - the truck problem stopped on its own and I epoxied the parts back together, successfully. Been stable for years. So, -sometimes- this problem can be fixed.

Certainly not that tender shell; that's not a tender shell, it's, ah, art.

The trucks/couplers on my cast brass 3rd Rail GM&O war emergency boxcar fell apart

almost immediately - so soon it was comical. Such a sincerely bad part. Even the wheels

split, as I recall. I replaced them with some nice low-bolster Lionel units. The old ones are in the junkyard. They do a good job of being junk. 

I'll have to check my Weaver troop cars.

======

Remember that very few of our models have, or ever will have, this problem. (This does not help the guy with one, I know.) People talk about "lifetime brass" and how the die-cast locos will fail.

Well, all those cherished and apparently eternal PW die-cast steamers were made of

zinc alloys, too, were they not? The material is fine; the manufacturing is (can be) the

weak link.

I just opened a sealed MTH premier set of Amtrak cars and the couplers disintegrated in my hands. This is the premier set 20-6519 I did get replacement parts from MTH the kits are $7 each plus shipping and that is a bargain. I had the parts in 3 days from ordering so it was painless and they are fixed. 

A couple of years ago I wanted a semi-scale Pennsy Torpedo to pull my repro Rail Chief set. I had a choice of Rail King or K-Line, and decided I liked the K-Line better. Some time later I saw a posting on the Forum about the problem with the MTH tender castings. Guess I dodged a bullet on that one - but I was lucky, didn't even know the round was incoming!

I saw one of the MTH tender shells from the Torpedo, it looked like it just wilted.   On the bright side, MTH actually replaced it for free, so that was a good thing.

A nice K-Line sprung freight car truck disintegrated on me.  It was the only problem I have had with modern items.

Google Zinc Pest.

Here's the (lame) Wikipedia page on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest

Does it have anything to do with where it has been stored? Like a hot attic?

Bob

I had a premier Erie Triplex that cracked and pieces coming apart a few years ago. MTH told me at the time there was no fix for it as they did not have any extra shells. 

I finaaly sold it at a loss.

Just for the record, that engine was delivered ion March 1997.

It's 18 1/2 years old and hardly qualifies as a "newer engine". That engine is older than my grandson, who is a senior in High school.

I  have die cast engines from Lionel that are older then both of us Barry and they have no problems like that. That to me looks like a bad alloy mix, MTH should be made aware of it. I had a spin casting system, if you get a bad batch of ZAM it will do that over time.

John

Wow, I feel for all of you who've had this happen.

I'd never heard of this before. I sure hope my On30 Bachmann ten-wheelers don't have any issues, as I assume they used a lot of zinc in the tender and boiler shells (as they weigh a lot).

I would say that I'm surprised in that my Dad knows everything about metals as he was/is big in blacksmithing and casting in metals for fun so I should have heard of it, but he's always worked in bronze and other similar metals. this never would have come up.