Just for my historical curiosity, this set for sale now on Ebay item#284711803564, is the the Lionel Winner Lines passenger set with wind up loco, with track and accessories. I was wondering if anybody knew the history or details of the Winner Lines sets, can't seem to find detailed info, just sets for sale. Thanks.
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While I am no Lionel expert ( hopefully someone will come along ?) I can share what I have found out about these little fellows and some historical context/opinion
The 1930's was a worrying time for a lot of American Firms , with many strong companies going to the wall due to the stockmarket crash which lead into the great depression ... Lionel although doing well before the crash and absorbing a few of their competitors , such as Ives and American Flyer , like many firms began to suffer from the lack of disposable income of the average punter in the years after the depression . ( see NWL correction below ! )
When Lionel took over Ives in 1928 it meant they were now owners of "compatible but not Lionel "stock that was more a budget conscious line, part of incorporating those designs was to introduce them as "Winner Lines " in 1931 to 1934 and market them to fill the lower cost segment of the market so as to provide an income stream in a time the average family just could not justify paying the asking price for even the most basic Lionel set. Lionel set up The Winner Toy Co which is the marketing these sets were sold under .. I am guessing , that way they could offer better priced versions without devaluing the reputation of "True Lionel" trains
This category eventually morphed into the Lionel Jr sets they appeared in both wind-up ( or clockwork as we say here) and electric sets ... the clockwork ones like that set you mentioned were all of traditional steam outline, however the electrics came as steam outline and as Box Electric outlined , I have examples of both in my collection
Interestingly the carriages in the ebay auction you listed are also part of this set and I have both along with the loco
I found a pictorial representation of the evolution from Ives to Pure Lionel as shown by tender markings ( borrowed from web picture )
From my own collection I have the 1506L loco and tender
Lionel was not a huge fan of clockwork and in reality only produced two clockwork mechanisms of their OWN manufacture
The Ubiquitous Mickey Mouse handcar series ( no I dont have one ) which is alledgedly credited with bringing Lionel out of bankruptcy ( but I think these Winner/Lionel-Lines/Lionel- Jr variants played just as big a part myself)
And the Lionel 1511 ( which I have a couple of )
( This model was also the power-plant for Lionel's Mickey Mouse Circus Train set , with the addition of an animated Mickey in the tender shoveling coal )
So in Summation as best as I can put together
Lionel ... buys Ives .. Great depression .. need for a cheaper set for the masses .. markets as Lionel-Ives.....Winner Lines... Lionel Lines... Lionel Jr.... as the progression from 1931-38 ???
@Fatman posted:While I am no Lionel expert ( hopefully someone will come along ?) I can share what I have found out about these little fellows and some historical context/opinion
The 1930's was a worrying time for a lot of American Firms , with many strong companies going to the wall due to the stockmarket crash which lead into the great depression ... Lionel although doing well before the crash and absorbing a few of their competitors , such as Ives and American Flyer , like many firms began to suffer from the lack of disposable income of the average punter in the years after the depression .
Lionel did not absorb American Flyer during the Great Depression. Lionel and American Flyer jointly bought Ives after Ives declared bankruptcy in the late 1920s. I believe they jointly ran the company for 1-year, during which time American Flyer obtained a couple of items, such as the wide gauge steam engine, and also under the Ives badging provided American Flyer passenger and freight car bodies for various sets. After American Flyer got out of the agreement, Lionel continued to operate the Ives company as a separate company for a couple of more years, before finally discontinuing the Ives brand in or around 1934.
Lionel would not buy the rights to the American Flyer name until American Flyer went bankrupt in the mid 1960s. Lionel itself became a part of the General Mills Corporation (MPC era) in or around 1970 and did not become a separate company until Richard Kughn acquired the company in the late 1980s.
Thanks NWL .. I was bound to get something wrong LOL
Richard Claus wrote a book about the Lionel clockwork trains called "Lionel Mechanical Trains 1931 to 1937" The isbn # is
ISBN-13:978-0-9762266-0-4. It was published in 2018. you may still be able to find a copy on the Bay
Roland
Thanks for the info on the Winner lines and your photo montage. Very informative and helpful. I see someone has bid on the set I mentioned, on at least its second go-round on the auction listing, so will sell this time.
I should add Lionel also produced a couple more variants using the later own design "whistle governed" motor ...
One of them I have in my collection is the 1588 locomotive passenger set
They also did another streamliner in clockwork which can be seen @ 2:30 odd on the video below , and actually the whole video is worth a good watch to get an idea of the main clockwork powered Lionel's pre-war .