No ERR Mini Commander EX - So what is 3rd rail using in their F3's?

What do you need to control in the dummy? It’ll just be lights so run atether between the 2 with your lighting functions

Thanks for the suggestion of a tether, but I'm looking for something cleaner. I would like to have support for an electrocoupler and light.  Ideally, drive an ERR Railsounds Commander too.

Maybe the answer is an AC Commander in the powered unit, and then throw in a cheap LCRX in the non-powered unit.  Then I could at least get couplers and lights. I would prefer sound in the non-powered unit, but I'm not sure if an LCRX would be compatible  with the Railsounds commander. It should, in theory.

If it's a AA set, put the powered unit in the rear and push the dummy in the front. Nothing says that the powered unit MUST be in the front.

As an idea, you could use an R4LC, tack a few wires on it for power - lights and coupler.  I saw TAS do that in some of their dummy loco upgrades and it seemed to work well.

GRJ, maybe a breakout board for the R4LC to wire up the connections would be a cool project??

You could also order the r2lc from Lionel during their 1/2 price sale in November. 691R2LCC08 lists for 40.  You can get it for $20 and do as Jon suggests above.  That's cheaper than the mini commander for lights and couplers.

SantaFeFan posted:

As an idea, you could use an R4LC, tack a few wires on it for power - lights and coupler.  I saw TAS do that in some of their dummy loco upgrades and it seemed to work well.

GRJ, maybe a breakout board for the R4LC to wire up the connections would be a cool project??

For cases like this I just use this Lionel motherboard though a simple 24 pin .1" pitch connector would work too.

Pete

No ERR Mini Commander EX - So what is 3rd rail using in their F3's? 

To answer the question, there is no non-powered units in 3rd Rail's F3 model.  Both the A- and B-units have full power and sound and cost the same.

SantaFeFan posted:

As an idea, you could use an R4LC, tack a few wires on it for power - lights and coupler.  I saw TAS do that in some of their dummy loco upgrades and it seemed to work well.

GRJ, maybe a breakout board for the R4LC to wire up the connections would be a cool project??

Jon, you're reading  my mind!  I was considering such a little board, it appears there is a need.  I've also thought of how I'm going to replace the MC in my projects.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

SantaFeFan posted:

As an idea, you could use an R4LC, tack a few wires on it for power - lights and coupler.  I saw TAS do that in some of their dummy loco upgrades and it seemed to work well.

GRJ, maybe a breakout board for the R4LC to wire up the connections would be a cool project??

Jon, you're reading  my mind!  I was considering such a little board, it appears there is a need.  I've also thought of how I'm going to replace the MC in my projects.

Will you be able to price it below 14 bucks?

Pete

Pete......Thanks for the r2lc mother board idea. That number does not seem to work. Might be unavailable,would you have another number or the original Lionel item number. I sometimes find things by looking up the item's parts breakdown.

Thanks

Richard

Pete....answered my own question, Google is your friend,came right up Price is way up to $27.00 though. Used on 

Richard, its good number. You have to switch to the "replacement part" pulldown from the default "item number". This is used in the 28080 USRA 0-8-0 among others. The price shown is list. 14 bucks is the price when LCCA does its weekend next month.

Pete

Thanks Pete.........I'll check out the pull down menu a bit closer. I'll be watching for the Lionel "sale" in November.

Richard

Norton posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

SantaFeFan posted:

As an idea, you could use an R4LC, tack a few wires on it for power - lights and coupler.  I saw TAS do that in some of their dummy loco upgrades and it seemed to work well.

GRJ, maybe a breakout board for the R4LC to wire up the connections would be a cool project??

Jon, you're reading  my mind!  I was considering such a little board, it appears there is a need.  I've also thought of how I'm going to replace the MC in my projects.

Will you be able to price it below 14 bucks?

Pete

Probably not if it was assembled.  OTOH, buying a R2LC motherboard from Lionel is only a very limited solution, I'm sure they don't have hundreds of them on the shelf.  They will likely run out if this became a common solution to the issue.

We can also customize the functionality and connection to the board so that it's most convenient for the intended usage, the R2LC locomotive motherboard is not optimized for this use.  Some on-board circuitry could expand the functionality of the coupler outputs, for instance, and make them useful for control.  Remember, we have to work within the limitations of what we can do with the R2(4)LC for this task, so expanding that would probably be a good idea.

Be my guest John. As this was meant for an RS4 engine, the motherboard has both serial data and rear coupler available. Actually all the R2LC inputs and outputs are already wired. Any improvement would be to replace the JST connectors with screw terminals as ERR has done.

Pete

Pete, if I were to undertake a project like this, I'd like it to expand the functionality of the R4LC so it could be used for more than a dummy locomotive.

"Thanks for the suggestion of a tether, but I'm looking for something cleaner. I would like to have support for an electrocoupler and light."  

Well, prototype railroads use "tethers" - MU cables - for controlling trailing units. So I would definitely call a tether "clean", and could certainly be used for any function in the dummy. Any wires - including RS boards - can be tethered to a second unit. It's fussy but simple work.

Real RR's use "tethers" far more than we do. Plus, steam loco tenders should have all sorts of "wired and plumbed" connections between them and the engine, but we keep eliminating them. Not accurate...

Great ideas everyone. I make things more complex than necessary. I loved Jon's idea to scab a few leads onto a radio card. I have a few working spares lying around. If GRJ came up with a breakout board to cleanup the connections or add functionality, that would be really sweet!

D500, I wouldn't mind a "scale" tether where appropriate. But how many times have you seen a 12 inch diameter tether on a real loco? (taking a Lionel or MTH 1/4 inch dia tether x 48 = 12")

GregR posted:

Great ideas everyone. I make things more complex than necessary. I loved Jon's idea to scab a few leads onto a radio card. I have a few working spares lying around. If GRJ came up with a breakout board to cleanup the connections or add functionality, that would be really sweet!

D500, I wouldn't mind a "scale" tether where appropriate. But how many times have you seen a 12 inch diameter tether on a real loco? (taking a Lionel or MTH 1/4 inch dia tether x 48 = 12")

Cut it open and run the small wires?

To just connect to the R2(4)LC, just use a 24 pin dual row .025 square post header.  Solder to the header and plug the other end into the R2LC.  This allows you to remove the board for replacement/testing without a soldering iron.

I like the GRJ breakout board idea best...

BTW, my biggest impediment to smartening a dummy is the lack of roller pickups. Expensive if one goes after new trucks, and even somewhat so if you just buy the pieces and bolt them on the dummy trucks. And, there may be an undrilled or untapped hole or two.

BTW, Lionel sure leaves a lot of openings for cottage industry products. One way of looking at it...

I use glue to add pickups, a bit of Styrene or Fiberglass and a roller pickup, job done.   If there are screws handy, I bolt the stuff down.

That's a plan. Looks good...

GregR posted:

We have been told by 3rd Rail that Lionel has refused to allow them to be produced.  So, with that being the case,  I must wonder what exactly is 3rd Rail using for their F3's? Do they have a secret stash of min-commanders? Something else?

1. This might be irrelevant in light of point 2 below but who told you Lionel would not permit 3rd Rail to produce the MC Ex? Last Iknew Scott Mann said they would produce them if there was adequate demand.

2.  I found out to my cost that the MC Ex will NOT drive the newer ERR Railsounds boards, so if it’s sound you are after you would not get it that way. (3rd Rail have re-named the Railsounds boards but from the online catalog they look the same as the last ERR product.)

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Pete, if I were to undertake a project like this, I'd like it to expand the functionality of the R4LC so it could be used for more than a dummy locomotive.

Go for it John!  If you did something like this, I would be a regular buyer from you.  I would want to add it to my trackside accessories and operating cars. 

Hancock52 posted:

2.  I found out to my cost that the MC Ex will NOT drive the newer ERR Railsounds boards, so if it’s sound you are after you would not get it that way. (3rd Rail have re-named the Railsounds boards but from the online catalog they look the same as the last ERR product.)

That's been a problem for some time with the MC-EX, I always used the little RCDR board as it has no problem driving audio.  Of course, that's another casualty of the demise of ERR.

There are three coupler/lights command kits on the buy/sell forum as of five minutes ago.

 https://ogrforum.com/...rocouplers#lastReply

John

ERR Mini Commander EX 

If you build it we will come. That doesn't sound right.

IF YOU BUILD IT,  WE WILL COME BUY IT.

Alan

After York, I'll probably start a thread on ideas of what it should incorporate.  A given would be a standard R2(4)LC as the TMCC receiver, the board would add the most useful features without costing a ton of money to build.  The couple I've thought of is an H-Bridge motor driver to be able to use the PWM throttle output signals for something, and some latching circuits to make the coupler outputs useful.  I'm sure there are a ton of ideas, I can always count on Stan to toss a few into the hat, he usually has some good thoughts on a project like this.  Obviously, some easy way to connect to all of this would be nice as well.  I like the Euro-terminal posts like the ERR Cruise Commander, but I don't find them at reasonable prices.

These multi pole connectors?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/50Pcs...7:g:SEkAAOSw8w1X~REy

Those terminals are really hard to find at a good price, good ones anyway. I found some of the green 2 terminal models on ebay for about $0.18-0.20 cents each in qty 50. They were really junky compared to the ones I got for the TIU testers from Digikey. Of course, the ones at Digikey were $0.91 (I think it was) cents each and ever so much nicer! So I stuck with the ones from Digikey. 

I have some more coming from ebay that were a little more expensive, but I don't have my hopes up to much now, after getting the others.

Lay out the board to accomodate screw terminals like you did on the superchuffer. In this case space should not be a problem. Let the user decide if they want to solder wires or not.

Pete

Pete, that's likely to be what I do as I don't want to run up the costs.  The above connectors are what I find, close to ten cents a position.  Not terrible, but I'm used to cheap when it comes to Chinese connectors.

Contrast that with the 5mm connectors of the same style, these are 30 2-pos sets for $1.84, more my price.   Three cents a position would be fine, triple that starts to make me wonder why the 2.54mm ones are so stinkin' expensive!

John,

Go ahead and sign me up for ten of these boards!  I’ve got an least five uses in the queue, and I’m sure I could dream up 20 more.

Thanks!!

GRJ, the ones you used on your isolated rail relay boards were quite nice, IMO, but larger as I recall? I'll have to dig one out, but I guess those were the 5mm terminals? I take it the ERR boards use the 2.54mm terminals to keep things smaller to fit inside the engines, etc.

Also, I take it you have somewhere found much nicer 2.54mm terms for a similar price than what I found on ebay in that size? I still have a 2nd batch coming from a different seller, but I am not expecting better quality than the 1st batch. That was really a disappointment. 

NBGT posted:

Go ahead and sign me up for ten of these boards!  I’ve got an least five uses in the queue, and I’m sure I could dream up 20 more.

First we have to figure out what the board will do.

rtr12 posted:

GRJ, the ones you used on your isolated rail relay boards were quite nice, IMO, but larger as I recall? I'll have to dig one out, but I guess those were the 5mm terminals? I take it the ERR boards use the 2.54mm terminals to keep things smaller to fit inside the engines, etc.

The reason I stuck with soldered wires for the Super-Chuffer and Chuff-Generator was that a terminal block just made it so much harder to fit it into all the engines.  There were engines that the old format Super-Chuffer wouldn't fit into, just imagine me sticking a 10-position terminal strip on the end, that would have made it much worse!  I'm leaning very hard on leaving the holes and making sure that a terminal strip "can" be added for those that really want one.

Sounds great!

Obviously, the size of the board is important to me. Can this be done in a 2" x 2 " board  or smaller??

I guess that depends on the features. too.