NO NEW MTH PRODUCT ANY TIME SOON.

Most all of my recent purchases have been Std Gauge from Waterman Locomotive Works, so mostly new tooling of products not offered in the past.

Steve

@ed new haven line posted:

Since the mid 2010s MTH has not produced any new locomotive models except for the little 44 Ton model and that's all we can expect for the seeable future from them. As for Lionel, in their 2022 volume 2 catalog all of the locomotive models have been issued before regardless of which is said in that catalog. Atlas with the former MTH product they now have so no new locomotive models are planned. So that leaves Sunset Models Third Rail to supply us with any new locomotive models. With the diesel locomotive prices approaching and making it to the $800.00 price for a single unit and with the big steam locomotives up to $2,500.00 I wonder who would be purchasing these models. Even with the discount price at some of the dealers most of my train purchaser friends have been wondering if we in the model train hobby feel have reached to point of coming to the end of purchasing any locomotive models and seeking out older production models from the mid 1990s to the mid 2010s. I have purchased several second locomotives from 1950 to 1958 to add to the models that I have had from when they first came out and been double heading them which is a lot of fun watching them operate. As an example a 1950 736 Berkshire 2-8-4 with a 2426 metal tender from 1947-48 for $150.00 two years ago also several diesel models at around the same price. I own approaching 200 locomotives with the last one coming from Sunset Models (the Burlington E5A & B) and one from Lionel (the Pennsylvania 0-6-0) for $630.00).  I have the Sunset Models Santa Fe E1A & B and two of the Amtrak Charger locomotives models on order from them. They certainly have the best locomotive product on the 2 and 3 rail market in recent years and I own 17 of their models to back up my claim. I still hope to purchase a few more of whoever issues any new locomotive models that I would like to see produced.

Ed G. (Along the Northeast Corridor of Metro-North and Amtrak in Westchester County, NY)

People like to complain about MTH not creating new tooling, but the truth is - they have so much tooling, made in the modern era, of so many prototypes, that maybe they deserve a break.

There are still a ton of models that I don't own that MTH made over the years, probably more than I could ever afford to buy.

Sunset/3rd Rail is a great company, and I own a few of their models. I will continue to buy them when they fit within my collecting preferences. The one thing about 3rd Rail though is that they are stuck using TMCC and older Railsounds 5.0. Don't get me wrong, these are great models, run well, and sound pretty good, but they are reliant on the good will of Lionel to keep licensing their technology. I think if 3rd Rail began to encroach on Lionels position in the market, we could see that end unsatisfactorily. The other thing that is, let's say, trying on one's patience, is that it can take a while for a 3rd Rail model to get researched, made, and delivered. I'm eagerly awaiting the SD40-2 run that was recently picked back up. The nice thing is, Sunset doesn't require any upfront payment, or even a deposit, but it can make planning outlays of spending on the hobby difficult for the buyer.

Did not originally order one because had questions about some CNJ specific details. But seeing photos of actual production made me wanting to get one but too late.

Thanks.

Nothing new because just about every diesel model has been made already. Can't thing of anything unless it is really obscure.

Don't think that there would be much market for a GE U-18-B, or a Alco 415 center cab switcher.

Countdown to the time this thread gets moved to a different sub-forum...

Maybe someone should make the EMC 1800 HP B-B Locomotive.   That's just ugly enough to make me want one.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Maybe someone should make the EMC 1800 HP B-B Locomotive.   That's just ugly enough to make me want one.

You see an EMC B-B engine, I see this...

Funny part is in the postwar period (roughly 1945 to 1990), my take/memory/from reading is that each year the catalog would have some new offerings, but a lot of things were offered for many years. so for example, the 671 turbine was produced for a good number of years. The other factor of course is that in the postwar period it was not scale, they reused a lot of stuff, so the 'varients" really were nothing more than paint and rubber stamping/decals, they didn't have to worry about things like "the EMD XXXXX that the Santa Fe bought didn't have Y and featured Z trucks". So in a sense new stuff may not have been all that new.

Even with BTO it seems like a lot of what is being offered is the same each year (and given I don't buy much new stuff, that could just be me). With MTH mostly producing custom products for hobby places, there are some unique things being made, maybe more so then when they did their own catalog.

I agree with another poster, the other problem is if something is unique, is it worth producing? If you are a fan of the Anywhere and Anytime Railroad, that was known for its 37.5" drivers and having its firebox inside out, how many other people would want it? Given the prices of stuff now, it is true that it is getting harder and harder to find that sweet spot of uniqueness and demand to make producing it worthwhile.

In the end it is the old saying, it is what it is, we can hope that there are more new offerings if someone is looking for a specific prototype, or we can see if it ever has been produced and buy one out there *shrug*.

@rplst8 posted:

People like to complain about MTH not creating new tooling, but the truth is - they have so much tooling, made in the modern era, of so many prototypes, that maybe they deserve a break.

I think folks forget that MTH is not the company it once was.  I don't think they have new product development engineers anymore and are just going to produce items from tooling that hasn't been sold to someone else.  They may be able to do some minor customization from available tools, but that's about it.  That's the way it appears with MTH's own announcements and the custom runs done for the dealers so inclined.

Rusty

MTH is big on painting the same locomotive in lots of different road names, that's for sure.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

MTH is big on painting the same locomotive in lots of different road names, that's for sure.

In a sense that is a blast from the past, that is what Lionel often did during the postwar period

@gunrunnerjohn   I certainly agree with you, the EMC 1800 is ugly but appealing. I would be in for one if it was produced.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Maybe someone should make the EMC 1800 HP B-B Locomotive.   That's just ugly enough to make me want one.

I think I would also buy one just for the uniqueness of the locomotive!!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Maybe someone should make the EMC 1800 HP B-B Locomotive.   That's just ugly enough to make me want one.

I have wanted one these for years. I was hoping a @sdmann 3rd Rail would produce but I think it was only SF & B&O that had them not sure he would get the orders needed.

I suspect there will be at least one newly tooled locomotive in the 2023 Vol.1 Lionel catalog . 

In any case, I don't think any company can subsist on selling product primarily to those who already own 25-100 locomotives.

To be honest Lionel and MTH have kinda the same issue here. The big steam/diesel/electric locomotives that will appeal to a wide audience (and create wide sales) have already been tooled up and produced. They make runs of the same thing with updated electronics in the hopes that buyers will want the same locomotive with new features, and in most cases they do. Not every time but it happens with steam locomotives frequently. Lionel announces a new Vision Line Challenger and all of a sudden there's a glut of TMCC JLC Challengers on the market as everyone dumps the old model for the latest and greatest model with an extra speaker and whistle steam. It happens less with diesels but it still does occur. It obviously works, otherwise manufactures wouldn't do it.

I know people complain that there are no new locomotives but one has to remember that manufactures need to make money of a locomotive, and tooling costs for a plastic diesel or a diecast steam locomotive aren't cheap. So if a manufacture has tooling made they need to recover that cost and make a profit. It's hard to do that with a model that may only sell to 50 people. So while a person may want an accurate, scale, diecast model of a Rock Island 4-8-4 Lionel or MTH know they won't recover their money producing that model. Instead they just put a Rock Island logo on another 4-8-4 already tooled up for a road they know will sell (Santa Fe) and call it good. They will run a Big Boy again and again because they know it makes money, and that's what they have to do to stay in business. So why are they making the same stuff over and over again? Because it makes them money, and that's the bottom line.

If you want something unique hope that 3rd Rail makes it. They can because of the brass construction and the need to not have to produce expensive tooling.