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 I picked up my New York Central E-8 ABA set from MTH the other day, so I thought it might be interesting for people to see the Premier version side by side with the K-Line E-8s.  Here's a head-on view of the two, with MTH on the left, K-Line to the right.  Yes, there's a huge obvious difference which I'll get to towards the end!  Otherwise they're both nice-looking diesels IMO.  The MTH pilot is green like the real thing.   (Disclaimer:  when I refer to the "real thing" I'm basing it on the restored version I've seen here in NJ.  Whether or not their restoration is prototypically accurate I can't say.)  The grab irons on both are placed inside the word " Central" on the nose; the real version has the irons outside the "C" and the "L"   The K-Line has these two "pockets" above each running board...I have no idea what they are.  The real thing does not show anything like that, though it does have an inset square plate just below and to the left of the headlight.

  

 

jade1.

 

Here the side view, MTH on top.  Fairly similar...the type face on the MTH is slightly larger and makes contact with the door frame whereas the K-Line is small and does not touch the frame.  From the photos I've seen of the real thing, the MTH placement is maybe a little more accurate.  The most glaring difference is the MTH model has, to the left of the front door steps, a logo "General Motors EMD Locomotive" (hard to see in these pictures, and in fact I had to get a magnifying glass out myself to read it while holding it right in front of my face.)  And towards the rear, under the diesel number, are the letters "DPA-5E"  Oddly, when searching for photos of the real thing I never saw an E-8 with either of these markings.  Certianly not an exhaustive search on my part; maybe someone better versed in NYC history can explain.

 

 

jade2

 

Here you can see the "General Motors" logo more clearly on the MTH model, above.  The K-Line version below has a tiny blank oval plate in that general area, so maybe they did acknowledge the logo but didn't add that detail to save time or money.  The MTH model has more detail around the door frame, the K-Line has more rivets around the portal hinges.   It's hard to tell from the photo but the MTH truck has more detail.

 

 jade4

 

Here's an overhead of the roof, MTH above, K-Line below.  Probably the angle showing the greatest similarity.  One major difference towards the rear.

 

 

jade3

 

jade5

 

 

Here's a fun series of photos....the E-8s shot from straight on.  The first is the MTH.  2nd is K-Line.  And the third is the real thing.  The comparison is probably imperfect because the real thing was shot outside, while the two "toys" were shot with whatever natural light was coming in my window, but you get the general idea.  (Anyway, for comparison's sake, better to have the two O gauge versions shot under identical lighting.)  And here's where we get to the obvious difference.  The K-Line, in my opinion, is closer to the true Century Green color.  Or at least truer to the Century Green that resulted in whatever restoration work the United Railroad Historical Society of New Jersey did to this unit.  The K-Line color has a slightly "bluer" tint to it, I think, and therefore closer to the real-world model.  But here they are, you can draw your own conclusions.

 

MTH

 

nyc

 

K-Line

 

 update

 

The restored New York Central E-8

 

 

nyc3

 

 

I apologize for any technical inaccuracies or mangled terminology.  I'm no diesel expert.  Those in the know who can point out corrections or explain stuff more clearly, feel free.  I can tell you that I'm looking forward to taking my new ABA unit and placing it on the layout later today.  It'll be nice to see an ABA setup of these beautiful engines, nice as the K-Line AA's are.  I prefer the color of the K-Line engines, but I'm happy with both.  They're both great-looking.  There are differences between the two, both subtle and obvious.  But I'm sure operators of either one are happy to own them!

 

- Mike

 

 

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Last edited by mike.caruso
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Mike - 

 

Thanks for posting the pix. One quibble - the head-on shots by the window appear to exaggerate the difference in the colors of the two models. Compare the surface (EDIT note - originally wrote "plywood") in the two photos. In the MTH photo, the surface is darker and more yellow.

 

The locations in the photos are close (well, K-Line is a little farther ahead), but the exposure and lighting appear not to be. If one tones the K-Line pic so the surface has roughly the same values in the info box as in the MTH photo, the difference in the paint colors is similar to the overhead shots.


David

Last edited by NKP Muncie

Mike- Thanks for the comparison, quite interesting!  I questioned the color previously as I am not well versed in NYC schemes.  The Lionel E8s look more of a Kelly green, as you said, lacking blue.  The only thing I could compare to my NYC E8s is Penn Central equipment noted as "Jade Green", which is a lot closer to the proto-restored picture you included.  I also purchased the bay window caboose, which matches the (Kelly green) engines.  Maybe Kelly green and Century green shades are very similar?

 

Rich

Originally Posted by NKP Muncie:

Mike - 

 

Thanks for posting the pix. One quibble - the head-on shots by the window appear to exaggerate the difference in the colors of the two models. Compare the plywood in the two photos. In the MTH photo, the wood is darker and more yellow.

 

The locations in the photos are close (well, K-Line is a little farther ahead), but the exposure and lighting appear not to be. If one tones the K-Line pic so the plywood has roughly the same values in the info box as in the MTH photo, the difference in the paint color is similar to the overhead shots.


David

 

Good point, David.  All the photos were taken with my iPhone, which is never going to be confused with a Digital SLR.  But they were all taken within a couple of minutes of each other.  But I copied the lighter photo and played around with it so the base more closely resembled the wood grain color (actually a Formica type surface) of the MTH picture.  See if this is better.

 

 

nyc

 

 

 

 

Still a noticeable difference but maybe not nearly as pronounced as the first go-round.  I would say the overhead shot of the two roofs is the best color comparison.  And of course the very first photo showing them side by side.

 

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Last edited by mike.caruso

The MTH pilot is correct for this model.  NYC replaced the passenger style slab pilots with the freight style pilots on all there E units sometime in either the late 50's or early 60s. 

 

DPA-5E was New York Centrals nomenclature for diesels.  Diesel, Passenger, A unit, 5E series.  I'm not the NYC expert either, but that is a correct nomenclature.  For some reason, I thought that text disappeared off the sides when the Cigar Band scheme came along, but don't quote me on that.   

 

MTH also correctly captures the F with the 1 underneath it.  On the rear of the unit there should be a small 2.  NYC was unique in identifying front and rear of their diesels with both the F and the numbering system.

 

As for the rear detail, the K-line model shows two steam generators, while the MTH shows only one.  I believe the MTH version is correct for that road number, but I believe NYC had some E units with dual steam generators. 

 

Finally do you mean the pockets above the number boards?  Those are MU connector covers when multiple unit operation was retrofitted to the front of the A units.  While they are overly pronounced on the K-Line model, you will note that the prototype picture you posted has one on the fireman's side of the nose.  It is subtle.


I would agree that the K-line color looks more accurate.

 

Nice comparison.  E units are a thing of pure beauty.  Thanks for sharing!

Last edited by GG1 4877

Not that it matters much, but anyone who is curious about the prototype for this set, the B unit was actually an E7 as the NYC never purchased E8 boosters.  Still love the look of any A-B-A in O scale.  It is a massive consist to enjoy. 

 

It is also interesting to note how good the K-line E units still look after all these years.  Doesn't the original tooling go back to 2000?  Granted the MTH E8s are based on 1990's Weaver tooling, however, they have been upgraded several times.

Last edited by GG1 4877

First let me say that I am a MTH kind of guy. I own the K-line jade set and I also own the PRR E-8's (Bennet Levin version). I do enjoy both  HOWEVER.......after looking at the pictures, I see MTH has STILL not closed that overly large pilot gap. This unsightly gap has been going on for as long as I can remember. Will they ever close it up even a little bit? Very disappointing. Very nice pictures Mike.

Congratulations to all owners of O scale Century Green E8s, K-Line or MTH. They are very nice models. 

 

The restored Century Green E8 finished its working career as the NJ Transit 4326 in North Jersey Coast Line service. This was the last of three E8s, the 4248 and 4323 were the others, to be rebuilt at Conrail's former CNJ Elizabethport shop. We should consider ourselves most fortunate that one of the green units survived long enough so that it could be restored in such a unique and historically accurate livery. The URHS volunteers deserve all the credit in the world for getting this done.

 

Bob

 

 

Last edited by CNJ 3676

Interesting; I have the K-line AA set, and really like them. I was glad to see how well they stand up to the newer MTH set, and even best it in spots. Plus, I use TMCC.

However, I like the MTH, and the pilot on the K-line set has always needed changing (and frame-mounting). The MTH color is a bit off, but if I didn't have the K-line

set, I'd get them.

 

====

 

These are the Century Green locos in service. Certainly the photo color is not good enough for reference, but notice the E-7B (there was no green E-8B) and the pilot type and color (it appears to be green in both photos).

 

All your set needs now is a good weathering.

 

URHS-report-spring-14-NYC-E8-4083

 

December 2011

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Last edited by D500
Originally Posted by clem k:

Thanks for the comparison, all three look good. Sure would like to see those pulling my K-Line 21" passenger cars.

 

Know of anybody going to Ann Arbor that might want to stop by with these

 

Clem k 

 

Clem, too bad I wasn't still living in Toledo!  I'd love to drop in to see what these would look like pulling 21 inch cars on your terrific layout!!  

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