NYC 0-6-0 Mogul

Correction 2-6-0 mogul #1924.
Odessy and railsounds 5.0

Fred~

I vaguely remember Mike Reagan from Lionel saying the tmcc moguls were the worse steamer to reassmble. I looked for the thread but had no luck.

 

Hi Wmcwood,
I am not worried about putting it back together.
I am trying to take it apart. LOL

Anyone have any ideas? Other than send it to Lionel.

Charles Ro is right down the street from me.  And whenever I have a question, they are usually very helpful. I just have never had a problem that I could not figure out myself or with advice from this forum.

Hate they idea of paying someone to take apart a loco if it is just a simple thing.
Most of these parts are plug and play.

Hi Fred,

 

I have this engine, and I have opened it up two or three times to do some upgrades too it. You only need to take out four screws. Two in the front under the front drivers

and two in the back under the cab. See my photos for reference. The shell is quite tight to remove because there's a lot of wiring in a small space.

 

Thanks,

Alex

 

Thanks Alex,
Those are not the ones in the manual. But makes sense.
I will try again tomorrow night.
Will let you know how it turns out.
Fred

Hi Alex,
Thanks again for the photos. Came apart easily after I removed the right screws.
As I suspected, I did smell electrical burning.
After dismantling, besides the charring in the smoke unit, ( it looks like someone added Tiki wicking because it was woven) I noticed that pin 2 and 3 on the 5 pin connector was overheating and melting/burning.
It looks like some overheating at the same location on the PCB board but it seems to me intact and mostly discolored. It looks like I can buy the male connector for 45 cents on the Lionel site ( Plus $9.00) but to get the melted female I would need to shell out $22.00 for a new PCB board.

Not sure what the best approach is.
But it looks like the wires come from the  voltage regulator and the other must be ground.

Any ideas what may have caused this.
And since I am inside, are there any recommended upgrades to the smoke unit.
I must say that it never smoked better than right before it started stinking. LOL
Also noticed the the board and connectors were pretty wet from possibly accidentally overfilling the unit. Considering how charred the wicking was, I can understand why I might of done that.
Thanks
Fred

This engine has an an AC regulator board. The smoke resistor is supposed to be 8 ohms. If the board shorts out full track voltage is applied to the resistor. Remove the shrink wrap from the regulator board to verify its condition.

 

Pete

Sometimes the resistor can touch the side of the smoke unit (input) side this can cause a ground and draw high current.  Usually the engine stops on that fault.  G

Hi GGG,

The resister was pretty much encased in the wicking and still had its sleeve on it.

No sign of shorting inside the smoke chamber.

 

Hi Norton,

Did not strip it down any further to inspect voltage regulator  but it does not look like there is any other signs of electrical shorting/failure.

 

See attached picture.

the PCB board and the connectors were pretty saturated with smoke oil. I definitely overfilled it. (done this before with others and never an issue, just a drippy mess)

 

These connectors are used by Lionel for 18v so I do not think that the increased voltage would of overloaded them. No sign of wire insulation melting either.

 

It looks like the # 2 and 3 pin somehow was acting as a resister in itself.

The odd thing is that even with the smoke switch off, it continued to puff smoke and a lot. That could be an isolated separate issue also. This is a fan driven unit, but also the smoke was coming from below which I know think was the smoke fluid on the saturated board and the melting plastic.

 

Tonight I may plug the female connector onto the board and test it after I clean the board.

In the photo you can see some melting but not scorching of the PCB board. it still seems to work.

 

Regarding the smoke unit.

Are there any upgrades to do while inside. Remove the resistor sleeve and replace the wicking with Lionel? Is the intake on this unit large enough. I do not want to tear down too far because all this has to be stuffed back in.

 

Thanks.

Fred

 

Your symptoms scream voltage regulator failure.  That would explain the excess current to the smoke unit, as well as it cooking the wick and damaging the connectors.  Also, the smoke regulators in earlier units failed pretty regularly, so it's quite possible you have yet another example.

 

Thanks John,
Where might this be hidden on this unit?
Just about everything is shrink wrapped to compress it into the tight space.
I assume that I can just order from Lionel, I hope.

Fred, this is the part in your engine. Sometimes stuck under the smoke unit.

 

 

Pete

That's the one, and note that it doesn't have a heatsink on the regulator.  The later Legacy ones are bolted to the chassis to heatsink the regulator, probably because these die without it.

 

The smoke unit may have been cooked, I sure wouldn't trust those contacts that have discolored the connector!

 

Well, I do have some parts in my Lionel cart. Just waiting for a reason to justify the 9 bucks for handling. Looks like I found one.

 

so it looks like a voltage regulator, PCB board with resistor, wicking and Molex connectors.

Anything else I might add on to the order?

 

Is there a preferred wicking for this unit and what about the smoke mods?  Do they apply to this loco?

 

Thanks guys for your help.

 

Thanks all.

Will do that but just might order both a new smoke unit and regulator an swap out new for old. Hate to change one and have the other fail or toast the new part.
running this engine is worth the approx $70. for parts.

Fred

Fred, Lionel Service sells the stuff they use when upgrading smoke units. Search under "batting" it comes in a single strip and cut in small sections. 

Also check with Boxcar Bill as he might be able to save you a few bucks.

 

 

Pete

Thanks to all for the help and guidance.

I bought a new unit and also the parts to rebuild the old. Just for the experience.

also did the recommended upgrades.

 

I figured I would use the old one for a building smoke stack.

My question is about hooking it up.

I attached the wiring diagram.

I am not an expert, so here goes.

I am assuming that the unit runs off 8V Ac through the regulator via the White w/black stripe wire.

I would think I can hook that  wire direct to a transformer set around 6-8 volts. Looks like the brown wire goes to AC ground.

What are the Black and red wires going to? The diagram does not identify the three black rectangles on the diagram. I guess they could be terminal blocks, but that would mean that they both go to ground.

Again, I am just looking for direct hookup to power with continuous smoke.

Thanks.

 

As a general rule red goes to the pickup rollers and black is chassis ground. The brown wire from the regulator appears to go to the smoke switch.

 

Pete

Hi Norton.

The brown on the voltage regulator does go to the smoke switch and then to the smoke unit via the White W /Black stripe.

That is why I assumed it was 8v AC hot.

The Brown from the smoke unit goes to the black rectangle (unidentified).

The red and the black both goes to the other unidentified black rectangles.

 

The pick-up rollers are at the bottom of the diagram and they look like they are attached to they rectangles also but that would put two 18v ac to the smoke unit plus an 8v ac also.

does not make sense to me.

 

Look at the attached diagram. Thanks

Fred, I checked my notes. They show five connections to the AC regulator but do not show colors. If you remove the shrink tube from your bad regulator you can associate the pins with wire color. The wire closest to the corner of the board is serial data, next is chassis ground, then center rail hot from the pickup roller, then heating element ground, and finally heating element hot. Hope this helps.

 

Pete

Hi Norton,
I think I will have no problem wiring the new regulator to the smoke unit.
I was hoping to use the old rebuilt unit for a building with a continuous fan.
I figure the 8v Ac goes to the element from the smoke switch.
The fan is connected to the PCB board
Curious how to just apply current to the PCB and run the unit stand alone without wiring the fan separately. I guess I could with a diode but not sure what the voltage on those mini cans are. Is the resister just 8v Ac?
Is there a way to do it turnkey with the 5 wires to the PCB board.
Maybe apply 6-8 vac and jump a couple of pins.
If so, which ones?
Thx

attached is a short video of the Mogul after the smoke upgrade.

Sorry but could not rotate it. But she sure smokes well now.

 

Thanks again all for all the help.

Pcb on the old one is junk but the fan and the resister work. I will just have to wire them individually for my building chimney.  I figure 5 vdc for the can motor and 8vac max for the resister.