NYC Electric locomotives

look for BB1  or DD1.

Lionel and MTH made the BB1's

MTH made the DD1...

Which were PRR locomotives not NYC

PRR BB1 #3900 & #3901 (Lionel)

Prototype #3900

The BB-1 "rats" were not New York Central engines. They were Pennsylvania.

They were produced both by Lionel and MTH.

The DD1s were also Pennsylvania prototypes, produced only by MTH.

The New York Central Rs have yet to be produced in 3-rail as far as I know. Lionel produced a NYC S1 and an S2, MTH a NYC P2a electric.

Jim

Lionel made an S-2, and MTH made a P-2. I think I got the classes right.

The DD1s were also Pennsylvania prototypes, produced only by MTH.

MTH also made a DD1 with the Long Island name on it. That's the one

I have. The Penn ones are better looking. Unique looking engine though....

Thank you very much for the help!

I will capture some pictures of BB-1's and DD-1's to show him. He is getting older and may hav mistaken the Brunswick Green for black.   But, mistake the PRR from NYC....hmmmm....   Could have though.

I'll check with him a little later and let you know.

Thanks again.

Henry J.

I quick pic of the Pennsy BB1 "Rats" made by MTH.

Here's the Lionel NYC S2 Electric.

Nice! Thanks PRRronbh!

Were these in New York? I ask this because my friend Jesse had seen the real locomotive around New York City.

Henry J.

gunrunnerjohn,

 I pointed that model out to him on Friday at York. When he told me that wasn't it,  decided I would google it at home. That was how I came to ask about the Ra and R-1.

 I think the S2 is cool looking! Thank sfor sending the photo!

Henry J.

Well, I tried.   I'm not sure what model he was talking about.

Henry, most operated in the NYC area at the Sunnyside Yard and probably setting passenger consist off at Penn Station.  They also operated at Philly's 30th Street Station.

Thanks John! Thanks Ron!

Henry J.

It was the "J" with smoke on the whistle and steam chest blow down

and command control and .....   Opps sorry, wrong thread....

3rd Rail's BBIs (I believe): good runners!

Here's the link to MTH's Long Island DD1's (which I believe was owned by the PRR at the time): http://www.mthtrains.com/content/20-5516-1

MTH has the NYC Box cab electric which is my favorite! Of course, that was one of the several other MTH locos that were stolen from my house in TX, along with all my other train stuff.

Checkout the MTH NYC Box Cab video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI1XEd3WYLc

THe LIRR used those rats for many years. I believe MTH or 3rd rail made a set. On another note, I love the electrics, and just scored a MIB Lionel S-1 #100. Gorgeous engine.——— The electrics are ugly-gorgeous.

Henry,

A good friend of mine, John Crisi, started a business call The Electric Shop, a long time ago. He produced both in kit form and built up NYC T and S boxcab electrics. He only made them in 2 rail but they were all brass sheet and castings. Everything with the exception of the Pitman motors was designed, machined, cast or formed from his designs and scale drawings. I have breakfast with him almost every Saturday and enjoy going to his home afterwards to see his engines run on his layout. Wish I was a 2 railer so that I could have and run them. 3rd Rail will be releasing a NYC T boxcab electric in both 2 and 3 rail next year.

Thanks for posting the video.

The New York Central only ran electric locomotives in New York City along Park ave for entry to Grand Central Terminal  They ran on outside third rail power.  That little pantograph on the roof was for when they were on switches and crossovers.  Instead of losing power from the gaps in the third rail small lengths of overhead were placed above the switches.  The T R and S motors were used in Manhattan   The P Motors were basically used in Cleveland  The NYC also had an electrified stretch in Detroit that ran through the tunnels to Windsor.

The Pennsylvania called their BB-1 Rat locomotives.  The Long Island also had these Rats with a designation of BB3.  The Pennsy would run them in one or two engine configurations.  The Long Island ran them in married pairs.  Most of them were assigned to Sunnyside YArds in Queens  The Long Island also used them on the electrified BAy Ridge branch

MTH, Lionel and Third RAil made the Rats.  I had all three versions in Long Island  The Third Rail engines looked nice but sounded like a static radio.  The Lionels sounded the best out of all three with Railsounds 5  The MTH version ran the best.

WOW - those two custom made NYC models are definitely the "cat's meow"! In a word:

AWESOME! 

The Lionel models of the NYC classes S-1 and S-2 electrics are very, very good. The

#100 was NYC's first electric for the GCT no-more-steam-in-Manhattan project,

is the only member of (electric) class S-1, and still exists - though it is rusting away in the

open in New York state (along with a NYC T-motor). The Lionel S-2 model is accurate in

that Lionel actually changed a few details when it came out. I was ready to buy the 

S-3 version (longer frame), but then Lionel started backing away from scale offerings

and decided to put much of its money into endless PW revival pieces...oh well.

The S-1 and S-2 were built as 1-D-1 (2-8-2) electrics, but were unstable at high speeds,

so were converted to 2-D-2 (4-8-4) locos. The S-3 class was built as a 2-D-2 loco,

hence the somewhat longer frame.

I find it strange that the class designations S-1 and S-2 were shared with the Niagaras -

not that you'd confuse the two types, but large railroads are usually pretty OCD about that sort of thing.

Ron, what's the ship model behind these engines? Just curious. Bill

Did the postwar Lionel #520 have any resemblance whatsoever to an actual prototype?

Aha, I just discovered this tidbit of info:

http://www.tandem-associates.c...ins_520_electric.htm

The Lionel Lines 80-Ton Box Cab Electric No. 520 was almost an exact replica of an engine that was made by General Electric for the Chilean Exploration Company that was designed to be used in their mines.

That engine that cape cod has a picture of 1153, I would buy in a minute if MTH were to make it. What is the correct number for that NYC engine? Don't tell me its the p-2, it's not.

Hi Bill, it is the USS Constitution.  It is made of wood, cloth, and string.  I purchased several years ago at a furniture store.  I recall it was made in Mexico.  I had built the plastic Revell one as a kid but always wanted a wood one.   It is about 30-inches long and 24-inches tall.

Ed,

That's a T motor (class T-1b, I think) and 1153 is an accurate number for that class engine.

3rd Rail has been accepting pre-orders on a similar model for a few years now - don't know if they'll ever get enough interest to produce it.

Jim

Jim,

They had announced it in cast for about $500-$600. No, they did not get enough reservations but they are going to be making it in brass for about $200 more and be available mid year. Interestingly, John Crisi did put one on reservation at the lower cost. He was curious as to how it would look. He even offered one of his to them for a model. He has now decided against it (he has enough of his own).

I wrote Scott Mann inquiring about numbering on the T-3 they are making. The lower number (252) they are offering on the striper was given to the loco around mid thirties. I want a black one, and do not want the striper. (One, because I am not a fan of that look and think electrics look good in solid black, and two, with the trouble they had with the E8 stripes I am very reticent to order it.) I want it all black but with the number 252 and not the higher 1152 number.   Here's a cool website with NYC electric photos. http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr085.htm

Lionel made the S1 and the S2. MTH made the P motor, P2 I believe. I believe the term Rats referred to the Pennsylvania RR electrics that used the tunnels under the Hudson and East rivers, River Rats so to speak.

Yeah above website I listed says the photos that 3rd rail is showing are not t-3's. If I get any further clarification from S Mann I will advise.

Happy New Year to everyone!

  Thanks for the additional input! Prior to the Holidays, I had a discussion with my friend Jesse. He was actually talking about Pennsylvania's BB-1's (Rat's). When asked him about where he had seen the real units he had to think about it again. Answer? Philadelphia. "Hmmn... That's a little south of the Sunnyside yard? Don't you think?"  I poked at him . Then showed him the pictures I found of he BB-1's.  "Yeah! That's them!'' was his reply. I just chuckled with him!

 At least we know what he's looking for now.

Cape Cod Northern, that T does look awesome!

Thanks Folks!  Henry J

Wow Lots of info on electrics here!

One point on the NewYork Central. The P class motors originally built for Overhead wire operation at Cleveland Union Terminal were converted for third rail operation when the catenary was removed in Cleveland. The converted locomotives were redeployed to Grand Central operations where they worked for the New York Central and later Penn Central.  The MTH model was done like this but I think the original 3rd rail version could be had both ways , ie with the Large pantographs or as a third rail configuration.

On the PRR the DD-1's were operated usually as pairs and they  the original power for PRR trains going into Pennsylvania Station , changing from Steam Engines at Manhattan Transfer station, east of Newark . They handled the train into Pennsylvania  Station and then on into Sunnyside yards and the reverse trip as well for the departing trains . The LIRR used these engines as well for locomotive hauled trains from pennsylvania Station to Jamaica where the change was made to Steam Locomotives.

When the catenary came in the 1930's, some of the PRR DD-1s were transferred to the LIRR. For the 1939-40 Worlds Fair, The PRR used the DD-1s to handle their trains that went to the Worlds Fair. The engines had a facelift at that time and were repainted into the 5 stripe scheme. After the Fair, the DD-1s were used primarily on LIRR trains to Jamaica until the railroad gave up the practice of running locomotive hauled trains into Pennsylvania station. Some DD-1s received The Tichy Greys and red color scheme on the LIRR before they were withdrawn from service in the early 1950s. A set remained at Sunnyside until the late 1960's and worked the wire train based in Sunnyside.

The BB-1 's , the so called Rats , were used as Passenger train switchers when the Catenary was installed. They generally worked as pairs , and could be seen at Sunnyside yards from the 1930s onward. The LIRR had a version built for them as well and these were called BB-3s . Not sure of the difference other than assignment. LIRR rats worked the Bay Ridge Float Yard which was electrified with Catenary at that time.

some BB-1s lasted into the Penn Central era and at least one wore the PC worm logo.

Ace:

I believe one of the Greenberg Lionel Guides has a photograph of that Chilean box cab the 520 is based upon. I can't recall which specific title it's in and I don't have quick access to my Greenberg books at the present time.

Sorry,

Bob