Need some guidance here. I wanna correct the marker lights on my MTH NYC F7. As you may know the marker lights on these models come green for the head unit and red for the tail unit. All the pictures I could find show that the lenses on this units where clear and I'm inclined to put white lights on the front unit and red on the tail but I'm not sure. What is the correct color for this lights? Where they ever green? Anyone ever made this modification? I appreciate the help.
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I think John S did this to his Pennsy units?
You may ask on the real trains forum to get correct answers too.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=2337815
http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=1000325
http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=1633116
http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=1000323
Those look like you could use a bi-color LED and have them switchable according to direction.
Thanks everyone, I started working on it today. I went with white lights on the front. I like that look better. I changed all the led with some warm white surface mounts leds. They look way better. I'll post pics tomorrow.
Also, now that I have the unit all opened up, I want to put that tether trough the doors. anyone done this? what's the best way to do it?
All the pictures I could find show that the lenses on this units where clear and I'm inclined to put white lights on the front unit and red on the tail but I'm not sure. What is the correct color for this lights? Where they ever green? .
All the F unit marker lights I've ever seen were white/clear, and the same with the markers on Geeps. The only red lights I've seen were ones that were housed in a second headlight. I really doubt there were ever any green markers.
To clarify:
These are Classification Lights, not marker lights. They indicate the type of train movement.
For a regularly scheduled train, they would be dark(off.)
For a regularly scheduled train with sections following, each section would display green, except for the last section where they would be dark.
For a non-scheduled train, or Extra, they would display white.
Red would only be displayed if it's a trailing unit in pusher service or displayed on the rear of locomotive(s) moving light(no train.)
Never would red class lights be displayed while moving in a forward direction.
Rusty
Thanks for the explanation Rusty. I did know about the technicality, but didn't know about the NYC for sure. It's pretty clear now that the only way to use them correctly one has to install separate switches as the lights light up on head and trail unit with the same command.
some progress.... The shell is not all the way in, cause I'm still working on it 
Trial and and error let me to install the headlight at this distance, if you want the led to fully flood the lens you don't wanna out it too close or too far.
| Classification signals - colored flags by day, lights by night - were once used throughout North American railroading. U.S. railroads used a single light and outer lens, with colored lenses in between that could be changed as needed. Canadian roads used three separate lights; on diesels these were often located near the numberboards on the front of locomotives. The purpose of classification lights was to help identify the train on which they were displayed. The three colors and their meanings were as follows: White. Indicated an "extra" train not shown in the timetable. For much of railroad history, train-movement authority was granted by timetables. If a train was listed in the timetable, it had the authority to operate according to its printed schedule. Deviations from the timetable, such as a train running late, were handled with train orders from the dispatcher. Under this "timetable-and-train-order" system, it was important that trains kept as close to schedule as possible, and that any special trains not shown in the timetable be clearly identified as such with a white light. Many freight trains operated as extras, and thus carried a white classification signal. Green. Indicated that, while the train displaying the lights was a regularly scheduled one, a second section was following behind it. This was done, for example, when ridership demand exceeded the capacity of a single passenger train. If there were too many passengers for a single section of, say, New York Central's 20th Century Limited, a second section was operated, and, if needed, a third, fourth, fifth, and even sixth. The engine of each section except the last would display green lights. While each section was a separate entity, the timetable's "train 25" would not be considered to have passed a given point until the last section of the train had gone by. For operational convenience, special trains that otherwise might have carried white "extra" signals were sometimes operated as advance or second sections of regular, but unrelated, trains. Red. Indicated the end of a train. A train, be it a single engine, a group of engines, or an engine(s) with cars, must have a marker on the rear end. In the (relatively rare) situations when the last element in a train would be a locomotive, the red lights would be lit. Classification lights phased out The timetable-and-train-order system has been replaced by other forms of movement authority, and classification lights are no longer used, although older locomotives still have them. Some railroads (including Amtrak, and New Jersey Transit) still use red marker lights, but most have done away with the extra items and just use the headlight on a trailing locomotive as a marker. |
Of course, since many are modeling older time periods, the classification lights are germane to most of our environments. 
The PRR ceased using classification lamps by 1940. Judging from NYC Hudson photos in the postwar era they too removed the smoke box mounted classification lamps found on the as-built Hudson's. My modeling approach has been to pick an era and region, research the prototype, pare the collection to rolling stock with details/paint/ lettering representative of that time and place. Just one man's approach to the hobby.
Ed Rappe
I have been given similar information that Ed Rappe posted, although I had not seen a date.
I was told the only diesels my "guru" saw marker lights on was on units running light (no train) and the markers on the rear of the last unit were red.
In the area I live in now GTW is the big player. I have been in this are for many years now and when I think about it, their locos do not even have markers. all the GTW units I have seen have little steel plates welded over the marker light holes in the nose and rear hood. these tend to 1st generation rebuilds (gp7/20) and GP38s and GP40s. I have not seen any that I can remember (not a good way to define their existence) that still had markers on in over 20 years.
Thanks for the info everyone. Also, lots of great pictures in this site: http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr2290.htm
Interesting subject, and I learned something new here. Until now, I'd assumed the classification lights on F units were mostly white and served primarily as marker lights, but in fact they usually just appeared that way because the outer lens was white, and the crew would manually slip in colored filters as necessary.
In more modern times, of course, with the advent of improved communications systems, radio and CTC, they became unnecessary, and so most viewers, including me, never saw them as appearing anything but white. Running with colored lights was an uncommon occurrence; I can't remember ever seeing a photo of an F unit (or any other diesel) running with green classification lights.
I can't remember ever seeing a photo of an F unit (or any other diesel) running with green classification lights.
That generally occurred in passenger service only, obviously well before Amtrak.
You know green markers mean another section following, so it makes sense for Lionel to put green markers on their stuff. There is almost always another section following the one that just went by!
You know green markers mean another section following, so it makes sense for Lionel to put green markers on their stuff. There is almost always another section following the one that just went by!
Lets remember that this is the 2-Rail SCALE Forum, and in my opinion, I don't think ANY of theses guys is remotely interested in what ANYBODY at Lionel thinks.
You know green markers mean another section following, so it makes sense for Lionel to put green markers on their stuff. There is almost always another section following the one that just went by!
Lets remember that this is the 2-Rail SCALE Forum, and in my opinion, I don't think ANY of theses guys is remotely interested in what ANYBODY at Lionel thinks.
Oh, I don't know about that. Personally, I am very interested if Lionel will do more scale cars that can be converted to two rail running.
Here is something I'm sure is not in the rulebook! I remember Christmas Eve in the late 1980's, on a Colorado and Southern (BN) running north to Cheyenne, A SD40-2 was in the lead, one marker on one side in the front was green, the opposite side was red! The crew must have been in the Christmas spirit!
Hot Water, you are so ready to condemn the things people say, you miss the humor.
Lionel trains usually run around in circles, hence section following is the same train next time around.
Now I am sure as a 2-rail scale modeler you have a point to point model RR with handlaid track and you probably even used tieplates. I assume you are wrestling with the decision to convert to Proto-48.
Guys, I found this picture in which the rear unit seems to display the red marker lights. the picture is not in the best conditio, but it would be consistent with what we are discussing since that unit is the end of the train.
I just posted a video of this set. I installed switches for the marker lights, so I could use them in a more correct way. I tried to emphasize this on the video.
Thank you everyone for your input. Hope you enjoy it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpRULgk90WE
and here are some pics...
Great job. Now all you have to do is fix the noticably crooked lightning stripes. The zigs are not parallel to each other.
WOW! Very interesting that you find those crooked, angled, stripes funny. They sure don't look that funny to me, considering the price.
For my entire career on the N&W/NS, the rear headlight set on dim was the marker.
Diesel units that still had class lights normally appeared clear because there was a mechanism in each light that held a small green and a red lens that physically had to be moved in front of the bulb in order to change the color.
WOW! Very interesting that you find those crooked, angled, stripes funny. They sure don't look that funny to me, considering the price.
Hot Water, I don't find MTH's mistake funny, they should have done better. What I find funny is to point it out over and over for the two years the set has been out like no one has noticed it. We all know about it, but to be honest at this point it feels like venting. I've gotten over it, and it does not bother me one bit.
WOW! Very interesting that you find those crooked, angled, stripes funny. They sure don't look that funny to me, considering the price.
Hot Water, I don't find MTH's mistake funny, they should have done better. What I find funny is to point it out over and over for the two years the set has been out like no one has noticed it. We all know about it, but to be honest at this point it feels like venting. I've gotten over it, and it does not bother me one bit.
Again, I find your explanation very unusual for a detail minded 2-Rail SCALE modeler. You went to all that effort over the class lights, but are willing to accept incorrect paint styling?
Ok, now where did I put my white cane? The lightning stripe scheme on these NYC F's looks perfect to me. Beautiful locomotives and clean, neat modeling.
Ok, now where did I put my white cane? The lightning stripe scheme on these NYC F's looks perfect to me. Beautiful locomotives and clean, neat modeling.
Mark,
Look at the diagonal (zig) in the striping under the cab area. The vertical strips are NOT even remotely parallel.
Ok, now where did I put my white cane? The lightning stripe scheme on these NYC F's looks perfect to me. Beautiful locomotives and clean, neat modeling.
Good evening Mark
I didn't see it until someone pointed it out to me, then it stuck out like a sore thumb. I don't know how it could be fixed.
Clem
Ehhh, big deal! If I dwelled on all the crooked air pumps, droopy pipes and cabs, etc. on my 40 + O Scale high end brass locomotives, I would have been committed to the State of Illinois Maximum Security Hospital for the Criminally insane in Chester, IL, years ago! The trio looks really nice to me. Santiago, enjoy 'em!
Ehhh, big deal! If I dwelled on all the crooked air pumps, droopy pipes and cabs, etc. on my 40 + O Scale high end brass locomotives, I would have been committed to the State of Illinois Maximum Security Hospital for the Criminally insane in Chester, IL, years ago! The trio looks really nice to me. Santiago, enjoy 'em!
Well thats what I thought
Clem k
Santiago,
Did you ever modify the tethers/cables that go through the doors between units?
I thought I read somewhere on here that you were thinking of it.
Thanks,
Bill McBride
Bill, I did not. I'll do it eventually, but I'd like to have something to go by. ill have to body mount Kadees too.
I sure do, bud. santiagop23@hotmail.com
At one time Train America Studio sold a kit that could be installed using bi-polar LEDs Red/Green. May be not correct, but it made for an interesting project.
Wiring diagram. Click on the underlined phrase for a larger view.
The TMCC programming wouldn't correct the lights when running backwards. I reversed the wiring for the second unit in this AA set. Weaver E8s.
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
